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Wherefore art thou, aberil?
- Wherefore art thou, aberil?
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RE: Wherefore art thou, aberil?
MarcoP > 13-06-2025, 05:05 PM
Googling "septembre octembre" "manuscrit" led to You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., made in Paris(?) probably around 1348-49.
In parenthesis, Voynich months as transcribed by You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..
januier
feurier
mars [mars]
auril [aberil]
may [may]
juing [jong] but I agree with Yulia: it looks like yong
juignet [iollet]
aoust [augst]
septembre [septe(m)b(r )]
octembre [octe(m)bre]
nouembre [nove(m)bre]
decembre [decebre]
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RE: Wherefore art thou, aberil?
davidma > 13-06-2025, 05:21 PM
(13-06-2025, 05:05 PM)MarcoP Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.In parenthesis, Voynich months as transcribed by You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..
It looks like the only month name completely unaccounted for in the french language of the late 14th century is "iollet" with the i. -
RE: Wherefore art thou, aberil?
davidma > 13-06-2025, 05:34 PM
(13-06-2025, 05:21 PM)davidma Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
(13-06-2025, 05:05 PM)MarcoP Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.In parenthesis, Voynich months as transcribed by You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..
It looks like the only month name completely unaccounted for in the french language of the late 14th century is "iollet" with the i.
Interestingly though, Thomas Sauvaget posits that it could be "jollet", as the scribe didn't have a lot of space to write out the j. It would be amazing to have a better quality image of that page, as it looks like there is an extremely faint line under the i as if it were a faded j, but perhaps I'm seeing things that aren't there.
Anyway, "jollet" is a valid spelling and, interestingly enough, was used in an English inventory book from 1433. It can be found here in the Anglo-Norman dictionary: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. -
RE: Wherefore art thou, aberil?
nablator > 13-06-2025, 05:55 PM
(13-06-2025, 05:21 PM)davidma Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
(13-06-2025, 05:05 PM)MarcoP Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.In parenthesis, Voynich months as transcribed by You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..
It looks like the only month name completely unaccounted for in the french language of the late 14th century is "iollet" with the i.
The "i" is not really a problem, but "u" instead of "o" is much more common.
Jung, Jullet on the French 1305 astrolabe found by Thomas Sauvaget: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Initial J is actually I, written like what looks like J to us: "j" was not much in use, as in Latin (except for the last "i" of a sequence of "i"), and i/y were more or less equivalent. You could find different spellings of the same word with "i" or "y" until the orthography was standardized centuries later. -
RE: Wherefore art thou, aberil?
Koen G > 13-06-2025, 06:05 PM
(13-06-2025, 05:55 PM)nablator Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Initial J is actually I, it's written like uppercase J: j/i/y were more or less equivalent and you could find different spellings of the same word until the orthography was standardized centuries later.
Would consonant usage always imply a sound like in English "yes"? -
RE: Wherefore art thou, aberil?
nablator > 13-06-2025, 06:18 PM
(13-06-2025, 06:05 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Would consonant usage always imply a sound like in English "yes"?
In some cases but not only. You see some random "y" in French and Latin texts, maybe some of them were thought of as long vowels, I'm not sure.
For example the "y" in medieval "luy" = modern "lui" and medieval "iceluy" = modern "celui-ci" were certainly never a consonant. -
RE: Wherefore art thou, aberil?
Mauro > 17-06-2025, 12:39 PM
For what it's worth, I think the difficult part in deriving 'Aberil' from 'Aprilis' is the change p->b, rather than the intervening 'e' (we have seen various examples in various languages of an 'e' inserted between a consonant and 'r'). If this is true, Portuguese 'Abril' should be the modern form nearest to 'Aberil'. -
RE: Wherefore art thou, aberil?
Juan_Sali > 18-06-2025, 02:09 PM
(08-06-2025, 09:10 PM)oshfdk Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Probably this has been settled a long time ago, but still I'd like to understand why the third letter is read as "e" and not something else. This looks to me more like an i with some strange mark over it (something like ĩ or ǐ of sorts). But this is certainly not my area of expertise.
In the starting calendar pages in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. there is an intensive use of that symbol
after kl and st, where an e is expected.