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Origin of the Shield Shape in the Solar Folio of the f85-86 Foldout
- Origin of the Shield Shape in the Solar Folio of the f85-86 Foldout
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RE: Origin of the Shield Shape in the Solar Folio of the f85-86 Foldout
nablator > Yesterday, 01:39 PM
(Yesterday, 12:43 PM)Dobri Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.If it is pretty universal, please provide an example of the use of sideways (flying) letter 'm' in a non-Beneventan script.
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RE: Origin of the Shield Shape in the Solar Folio of the f85-86 Foldout
Dobri > Yesterday, 01:40 PM
(Yesterday, 01:21 PM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
It is a part of every investigation to deal with circumstantial evidence to connect the dots.(Yesterday, 01:02 PM)Dobri Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Well, at least one symbol in the cipher manuscript can be identified with some certainty for the past hundred years of research.
"With some certainty" is not yet justified.
I wrote You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. ages ago. The similarity is good, and I dare say that this is objective. Still I am not sure that it is not coincidental.
There was a whole thread here (or in Stephen Bax's blog) showing that the same symbol was used as a paragraph marker in Spanish manuscripts. I would not know how to search for that but perhaps someone else remembers.
The very first post in this thread is an example of following a lead.
(Yesterday, 01:39 PM)nablator Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Apparently, your examples are not concerned with suprascript.(Yesterday, 12:43 PM)Dobri Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.If it is pretty universal, please provide an example of the use of sideways (flying) letter 'm' in a non-Beneventan script.
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RE: Origin of the Shield Shape in the Solar Folio of the f85-86 Foldout
R. Sale > Yesterday, 07:55 PM
(Yesterday, 01:19 PM)oshfdk Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.There are many symbols in the Voynich MS that look like something or other. I think it takes more than just visual similarity to conclusively prove that the scribe had some particular symbol in mind when writing a certain shape.
If it takes more than just visual similarity, what more does it take? The determination of 'visual similarity' - based on appearance - is somewhat subjective. In contrast, the placement of 'objects' is structural and therefore objective.
Here two of the three examples consist of a matching pair of subjective interpretations and an objective determination in a given system.
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RE: Origin of the Shield Shape in the Solar Folio of the f85-86 Foldout
oshfdk > 2 hours ago
(Yesterday, 07:55 PM)R. Sale Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.If it takes more than just visual similarity, what more does it take?
I guess some meaningful context or a system that unites visually similar features. If a single item in the MS matches very well visually with something else, this is a good reason for investigation, but this is not a good reason to just claim that A is B, case solved. -
RE: Origin of the Shield Shape in the Solar Folio of the f85-86 Foldout
Dobri > 1 hour ago
(2 hours ago)oshfdk Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I guess some meaningful context or a system that unites visually similar features. If a single item in the MS matches very well visually with something else, this is a good reason for investigation, but this is not a good reason to just claim that A is B, case solved.
The system that unites visually similar features of not just one but several items (sideways flying 'm', 'V' and 'U', possibly 'G" and 'C', and an 'O' shaped shield) is the Beneventan script.
The most striking feature is the suprascript of said 'm' which is unique to the Beneventan script.
The breakthrough here is the realization that the red embellishments in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. are actually readable Latin letters.
One could continue doubt it to a certain extent. However, there is now a new line of investigation that has never been considered before. -
RE: Origin of the Shield Shape in the Solar Folio of the f85-86 Foldout
oshfdk > 41 minutes ago
(1 hour ago)Dobri Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The system that unites visually similar features of not just one but several items (sideways flying 'm', 'V' and 'U', possibly 'G" and 'C', and an 'O' shaped shield) is the Beneventan script.
The most striking feature is the suprascript of said 'm' which is unique to the Beneventan script.
As far as I can tell, this is not 'm', this is a different shape. The examples of Beneventan 'm', those that I've seen in this thread so far, are a clear 3-like shape with two curves meeting at a point, mimicking the shape of the normal upright 'm'. In the Voynich MS this is a single wavy line, with a clear outline of two ink paths, a big and smooth one, so this is not a slip of pen.
(1 hour ago)Dobri Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The breakthrough here is the realization that the red embellishments in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. are actually readable Latin letters.
One could continue doubt it to a certain extent. However, there is now a new line of investigation that has never been considered before.
Even if your interpretation (edit: of the shapes) turns out correct, I don't see how this is different from attempting to read a as a, o as o, q as q, etc. There have been many attempts of interpreting various Voynichese symbols as Latin letters.