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Can we make assumptions based on the manuscript finding its way to Rudolf?

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• Can we make assumptions based on the manuscript finding its way to Rudolf?

• Can we make assumptions based on the manuscript finding its way to Rudolf?

  zachary.kaelan > 10-03-2025, 05:06 PM

  I'm wondering if the manuscript finding its way into the hands of a collector 180-odd years after creation - presumably as part of a group of other, unrelated books, liking having changed hands multiple times - increases the probability of the manuscript being a hoax to make money. On the other hand, manuscripts changed hands by force all the time. People that tend to go to such lengths to conceal information tend to have a reason to believe said information is important and has a risk of being intercepted. The manuscript doesn't seem like it stayed with its original creators for very long, which in my mind increases the chances of it either having not been important to them, or them having had valid cause to worry that it would fall out of their hands.
  
  While the creators could've all died and the manuscript sold off by a heir, I would think part of the point of putting so much money and effort into creating a high-quality manuscript of secret knowledge would be so that it could be preserved, for future generations of whatever group or family they were a part of.

• RE: Can we make assumptions based on the manuscript finding its way to Rudolf?

  oshfdk > 10-03-2025, 05:17 PM

  (10-03-2025, 05:06 PM)zachary.kaelan Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The manuscript doesn't seem like it stayed with its original creators for very long...

  
  Could you elaborate? I see no reason why it couldn't have stayed with the original creators throughout their lifetime. Actually, I think this is the most likely explanation of why its provenance wasn't known later, because at some point it was just found among the possessions of someone deceased and it was at that point that any information of its origin was lost.

• RE: Can we make assumptions based on the manuscript finding its way to Rudolf?

  Koen G > 10-03-2025, 05:23 PM

  How many real manuscripts did Rudolph buy vs how many forgeries?

• RE: Can we make assumptions based on the manuscript finding its way to Rudolf?

  zachary.kaelan > 10-03-2025, 09:50 PM

  (10-03-2025, 05:17 PM)oshfdk Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

  (10-03-2025, 05:06 PM)zachary.kaelan Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The manuscript doesn't seem like it stayed with its original creators for very long...

  
  Could you elaborate? I see no reason why it couldn't have stayed with the original creators throughout their lifetime. 

  
  Sorry, by "with the original creators" I meant with whatever group or family they were a part of. With how expensive the parchment was and how formal and well-made the manuscript was, it seems like it was meant to last or be used for more than just their lifetime. 
  
  

  (10-03-2025, 05:23 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.How many real manuscripts did Rudolph buy vs how many forgeries?

  
  Well we can at least consider it likely that whoever sold it to Rudolf had no idea if it was a forgery, and wasn't intentionally conning him if it was. I can't speak as to his taste in book dealers, though.

• RE: Can we make assumptions based on the manuscript finding its way to Rudolf?

  Rafal > 10-03-2025, 11:11 PM

  Quote:Well we can at least consider it likely that whoever sold it to Rudolf had no idea if it was a forgery

  
  I believe we cannot exclude the option that Voynich Manuscript was a forgery deliberately made for Rudolf. Someone got 150 years old empty vellum and made the manuscript copying and altering pictures from old Italian and German manuscripts.
  
  There are actually two very good candidates for forgers. I guess many of you you know which guys I mean

• RE: Can we make assumptions based on the manuscript finding its way to Rudolf?

  ReneZ > 11-03-2025, 12:34 AM

  (10-03-2025, 05:06 PM)zachary.kaelan Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I'm wondering if the manuscript finding its way into the hands of a collector 180-odd years after creation - presumably as part of a group of other, unrelated books, liking having changed hands multiple times - increases the probability of the manuscript being a hoax to make money.

  
  Rudolf, as a super-wealthy collector, is one of the most logical persons in history to have become the (temporary) owner of the MS. I doubt that much can be derived from this fact. It does not put any closer limit on the place where it came from, for example.
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