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Getting close to a source for f85r2
- Getting close to a source for f85r2
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RE: Getting close to a source for f85r2
Koen G > 22-01-2025, 01:43 AM
I'm impressed by the numbering marks - I never knew such parallels had been found.
I'm afraid I'm not quite following what he's getting at with the other posts though. The type of script is the same but the letter forms are quite different.
It's remarkable that so many of the Alsace - Constance etc parallels are late, as in 1450's late. Are we looking at different strata, depending on the scribe? Some later B-scribes? There's no imperative that all five of them should have been writing at the same time. Or even that one scribe should have finished their work in a single year. And how does the scarcity of different pigments on the rosettes and some other folios come into play? And the German-ish painting instructions? And the awful and suspected by some to be late overall paint job? So many questions. -
RE: Getting close to a source for f85r2
ReneZ > 22-01-2025, 04:37 AM
(22-01-2025, 01:43 AM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.So many questions.
No comment
One thing to keep in mind is that the fifteenth century saw a great increase in MS production, so in general one will find many more MSS from after 1450 than from before.
The other thing is that 'short time' or 'at the same time', when looking back at this time frame, does not have the same meaning as it does now.
A 20-year time difference nowadays is enormous.
(Where was any of us in 2005? Not writing in this forum for sure).
When looking back at the 1420's it feels roughly the same.
Or rather: we would not be able to tell if things happened to the MS 10-20 years apart. -
RE: Getting close to a source for f85r2
Aga Tentakulus > 22-01-2025, 08:44 AM
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RE: Getting close to a source for f85r2
R. Sale > 22-01-2025, 08:35 PM
I feel that the focus has shifted. The merlon investigation put so many points on the map, that it's difficult to escape northern Italy. It was said that if the Rosette's castle could be identified, we would know where the VMs was created, or where its author was born.
Instead, what we have learned from the investigation of VMs illustrations is a growing list of information that was known to the VMs artist. The investigation connects the information to a place and time. This investigation, and others before it, continue to shift the focus to areas on the north side of the Alps. This also includes a tendency to push the potential date of VMs creation out of the first quarter of the 15th C. and into the second quarter. -
RE: Getting close to a source for f85r2
Mark Knowles > 22-01-2025, 09:26 PM
(22-01-2025, 08:35 PM)R. Sale Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I feel that the focus has shifted. The merlon investigation put so many points on the map, that it's difficult to escape northern Italy. It was said that if the Rosette's castle could be identified, we would know where the VMs was created, or where its author was born.
Instead, what we have learned from the investigation of VMs illustrations is a growing list of information that was known to the VMs artist. The investigation connects the information to a place and time. This investigation, and others before it, continue to shift the focus to areas on the north side of the Alps.
There is a way to account for influences on the Voynich manuscript North of the Alps and South of the Alps. It just requires the author(s) to have moved from one place to the other at a certain time. If the author made such a journey it would not be altogether surprising if they produced a map of such a journey. One can choose to ignore the reality of this, but the reality will still remain. -
RE: Getting close to a source for f85r2
MarcoP > 30-01-2025, 07:26 AM
I just went back to You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (2021). I had forgotten that his code selected the Berlin copy of Laufenberg’s Regimen (Ms.germ.fol.1191, aka mgf 1191) as the best parallel.
In You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., the Berlin manuscript was only 35th of about 130 sources. -
RE: Getting close to a source for f85r2
Juan_Sali > 13-02-2025, 12:07 AM
(08-01-2025, 02:39 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.In the printed edition apparently they have three women with flowers for spring, summer, autumn, and then the one with the cane for winter. In the MS, they already give her a cane in autumn and she's double caning in winter
I think that there is a mistake in your interpretation due to the cut image. The full 2 pages with the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.:
The woman with the cane is in the chapter of the autumm, the text over the woman refers to the next chapter, the winter:
Das vierd teyl ist der wintter (the fourth part is the winter).
Same for 2 previous woman.
The image of the phisician is the winter. -
RE: Getting close to a source for f85r2
Juan_Sali > 13-02-2025, 12:32 AM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., 15th century You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. 26r
Temperaments,
The atributes of the first one are similar to the ones of the woman of the previous post.
He is flemmaticus aqua (phlegmatic, water), which uses to correspont to autumn. -
RE: Getting close to a source for f85r2
Dobri > 13-02-2025, 07:02 AM
One unexplored option is that perhaps the person on the top of the wheel in the solar folio is just pointing to the adjacent lunar folio.