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MSI at last!
- MSI at last!
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RE: MSI at last!
Aga Tentakulus > 16-09-2024, 07:58 AM
Thank you Rene
No 4 has the same type of numbering. The double cancelled N is striking.
Interesting. -
RE: MSI at last!
ReneZ > 16-09-2024, 11:47 AM
Yes, but this was a very common thing that was used by lots of different people. -
RE: MSI at last!
oshfdk > 16-09-2024, 07:14 PM
(16-09-2024, 12:50 AM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Nice!
This seems to confirm that Tepenec's book number is indeed 19.
I didn't even notice the number there, thought it was some strange embellishment under the signature.
Just in case, some basic information about these enhanced images. The models I use are trained on a set of pixel values for some 500 tiny areas of the images (about 3x3 pixels each), about half of these areas are taken from points where there is obvious (on MSI TIFFs) text ink or there obviously should have been some text ink (short empty areas of pen strokes for which only the beginning and the end are clearly identifiable) and the other half are from portions of the page where there is no ink visible and no ink expected. What's important is the model has no access to spacial information (pixel coordinates). So, it's extremely unlikely that the model will introduce spurious artifacts resembling anything like pen strokes. Generally, if the processed image shows a clear line, stroke or blob, especially not within the actual training area (which, for now, is the right margin of 1r only) it means this feature is genuinely present in the TIFFs and not introduced by the model. Even though the feature could be something other than an ink trace.
Which brings me back to 116v. On the processed images I made from MSI there is some strange large squiggle at the bottom right corner of the page, which looks like a signature. I'm not sure if this feature was discussed before.
(full resolution: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.)
All four of the models I use consistently pick parts of this squiggle as ink. I cannot see it at all on the visible light scans. Here's one of the models which is particularly good at not picking anything but ink, which still shows parts of this feature clearly.
(full resolution: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.)
Here is an overlay of this feature over a scan of 116v.
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What could that be? -
RE: MSI at last!
ReneZ > 17-09-2024, 01:12 AM
(16-09-2024, 07:14 PM)oshfdk Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I'm not sure if this feature was discussed before.
I do not remember seeing this, let alone any discussion of it.
I agree that it is not visible on the normal scans.
Can it be seen in any of the individual wavelengths?
The lines are a bit wide / thick for it to be writing... -
RE: MSI at last!
ReneZ > 17-09-2024, 01:26 AM
Another thing (back to f1r):
Brumbaugh writes in his book (p.115-116):
"After some work with ultraviolet light on folio 1r, my son Robert Conrad Brumbuagh, who was assisting me, proved that indeed someone had recognized the Bacon attribution cipher and had written it here in the margin. It is now badly obliterated and faded. In very small numbers, just above this table, is a date 1 * 3 0, the * illegible. Now, 1630 would fall into the period between the death of Tepenecz (in 1622) and Marchi's inheriting the manuscript (prior to 1644). At first, I thought the table might be earlier, a deliberate invitation to any would-be purchaser to read the ''Bacon'' cipher in the key. But we now favor the 1630 date, and assume that the writer of this table, having found that it read the key text, hoped that it would work for the balance of the cipher manuscript text as well."
There is quite a bit to unravel here, but the one thing that I have always found interesting is his reference to these tiny numbers above the cipher tables. I have looked and never seen anything.
Can we see this now?
(Note: Brumbaugh also thought that below the Tepenec signature was the word "Prag" but this we now now says "No 19".) -
RE: MSI at last!
oshfdk > 17-09-2024, 04:08 AM
(17-09-2024, 01:12 AM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
(16-09-2024, 07:14 PM)oshfdk Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I'm not sure if this feature was discussed before.
I do not remember seeing this, let alone any discussion of it.
I agree that it is not visible on the normal scans.
Can it be seen in any of the individual wavelengths?
The lines are a bit wide / thick for it to be writing...
Here's the corresponding part of the page from all individual TIFFs, no special processing other than squeezing 16 bit to 8 bit.
I think it can somewhat be seen on a few individual TIFFs, in extreme UV (top left) and more distinctly in WBUV (wideband UV?) at bottom right.
I haven't seen any additional writing on 1r, except that tiny 'a' at the tip of EVA 'ees'. I'm not sure if this "1?30" supposed to be somewhere above the top right large weirdo character or under it? -
RE: MSI at last!
oshfdk > 17-09-2024, 04:26 AM
Just to reiterate, the way I process the images doesn't involve any attempt of reconstructing or enhancing any shapes, it works solely on pixel by pixel basis examining colors on each of 38 bands, and the color of the pixel in the resulting image is based only on the color of the same pixel in each of 38 TIFFs. So, it's unlikely that this would introduce any shapes not present in some way in the original TIFFs. -
RE: MSI at last!
oshfdk > 17-09-2024, 04:46 AM
The strokes are wide, but given its total absence in normal light, could this be something that was written and then quickly washed off, while the ink was still wet? Just a guess, I have no idea how inks, vellum and UV work together. -
RE: MSI at last!
asteckley > 17-09-2024, 05:02 AM
It may be an illusion -- seeing something and the mind filling in parts that aren't there --, but it.looks more like a broken item or tool that has left an image (due to sunlight or pressure). There's a hint of cogwheel or saw teeth, on the upper side of it. -
RE: MSI at last!
oshfdk > 17-09-2024, 05:23 AM
There seems to be something that looks like a jagged line starting at the top of what looks like an A. I think I will train a separate model on this page and see whether there is anything else. So far I have just used the model trained on the right margin of 1r.