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MSI at last!
- MSI at last!
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RE: MSI at last!
bi3mw > 09-09-2024, 04:50 PM
(09-09-2024, 04:35 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I like that idea, Patrick. It would explain a number of things.
If suspected Marci wrote the Latin characters in the 1600's, should his ink have a different composition than that used in the early 1400's? Should it show up in the MSI?
Recipe for iron gall ink:
Heidelberger Codex Pal. Germ. 489, "Von den Farben", Amberg, 1563
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Schwartze dinten
Nimm den vierten tail aines mass wasser,
oder wein, und 1 lot galla romana, wol
gestossen, und legs in das wasser, und setz
es zum fewr das es siede, ain halb stundt,
darnach thue ain lot gummi arabicum wol
gestossen darein, und ruers undereinander.
Lass ain claine weil sieden, darnach leg 1 lot
vitriol wol gestossen darein, und ruer es wol
undereinander, und nims war das es nit
uberlauff.
Black ink
Take a quarter measure of water
or wine, and one lot of Gallo Romana, well
well pounded, and put it into the water, and set it
it on the fire to boil for half an hour,
then add one lot of gum arabic, well
crushed, and stir everything together.
Let it boil for a little while, then add a lot of
vitriol well crushed, and stir it well
well, but be careful that it does not
overflow.
I suspect that the recipe was not much different in the early 15th century. -
RE: MSI at last!
oshfdk > 09-09-2024, 05:23 PM
(08-09-2024, 05:47 PM)LisaFaginDavis Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.My friends, I have some very exciting news for you! Roger Easton, who took the MSI images of selected pages of the VMS back in 2014, has sent me the images and given me permission to make them public.
Thank you, this is truly fascinating! I wonder if it's possible that MSI in the future could reveal offset images of some of the missing pages? -
RE: MSI at last!
LisaFaginDavis > 09-09-2024, 05:29 PM
(09-09-2024, 05:23 PM)oshfdk Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
(08-09-2024, 05:47 PM)LisaFaginDavis Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.My friends, I have some very exciting news for you! Roger Easton, who took the MSI images of selected pages of the VMS back in 2014, has sent me the images and given me permission to make them public.
Thank you, this is truly fascinating! I wonder if it's possible that MSI in the future could reveal offset images of some of the missing pages?
I sure hope so! That would be an amazing outcome. -
RE: MSI at last!
pfeaster > 09-09-2024, 05:37 PM
(09-09-2024, 04:35 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.If suspected Marci wrote the Latin characters in the 1600's, should his ink have a different composition than that used in the early 1400's? Should it show up in the MSI?
On Voynich_001r_bands01-22_RF+FL_cal_med3+box51x5_bad_22bands_blueRoI_RH_margin_shiftdif_MNF_R+3_G-4_B-5_scga.jpg, the whole set of columns looks consistently different from the main text -- less blue, whatever that might indicate.
But on closer examination, it looks like that difference may just have been caused by the chemical Wilfrid applied to part of this leaf. In those places where the last few glyphs in a line of the main text have become illegible in visible light, they have the same "non-blue" appearance in the MSI as the glyph columns do. The chemical also appears to have left a line of blue along the edge of where it was applied after it dried. Whatever substance the blue represents, could the chemical have dissolved and dispersed it? -
RE: MSI at last!
LisaFaginDavis > 09-09-2024, 05:53 PM
The marginal alphabets are almost certainly also written in iron-gall ink, so I would expense the response to be similar. The only way to determine if the composition of the inks is the same would be testing with XRF. That would also confirm whether Marci wrote all three sequences or just the two Roman alphabets. -
RE: MSI at last!
asteckley > 09-09-2024, 06:44 PM
One thing my son and I observed that seems worth mentioning is in regards to the columnar table in the margin of f1r: The table, or at least the third column of it, seems to have been written some time AFTER the manuscript had had a wooden cover put on it and then stored for some time. There's nothing too surprising about that, but the evidence is worth noting:
The vertical worm hole at top (spanning almost the first three rows) was almost certainly present when the third column was written. Here's why:- The "a", "b", and "c" in the third column seem to have been purposely written to the right of the worm hole -- the person even put horizontal lines on these rows to help connect the characters in those rows because of the extra offset.
- The horizontal lines would not be needed but for the extra distance to the third column.
- And the extra distance would not be needed but for the prior presence of the wormhole.
- The horizontal lines would not be needed but for the extra distance to the third column.
- Then the "d" in the third column is shifted back to the left, (to the more natural position for the middle column), directly below the wormhole. For the subsequent rows below that, the writer maintains the vertical alignment of the third column
--Andrew - The "a", "b", and "c" in the third column seem to have been purposely written to the right of the worm hole -- the person even put horizontal lines on these rows to help connect the characters in those rows because of the extra offset.
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RE: MSI at last!
LisaFaginDavis > 09-09-2024, 06:50 PM
Indeed, some of the wormholes were there before the lettering was added, and some came later. That's not surprising, since the manuscript was already 200 years old when Marci owned it, and another 400 years have since passed. -
RE: MSI at last!
hiki33 > 10-09-2024, 01:54 AM
The last two "words" of 17r marginalia are clearly voynichese:
![[Image: screenshot-698.png]](https://manuscriptroadtrip.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/screenshot-698.png)
What does it read? oteeeol am? -
RE: MSI at last!
Scarecrow > 10-09-2024, 08:36 AM
(09-09-2024, 02:23 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Good point - why did he feel the need to write on the actual MS in the first place? I would think that at this time in history and for a man of his position, paper would have always been on hand. If you are right that he probably practiced on paper, then why write on the MS if it is just an attempt? I find it all very confusing.
I like simplicity. As Lisa often reminds us, we are humans not robots and so was Marci and we do things differently even that we are a creatures of habit.
I believe Marci, a man of great reputation and a great scientist, thought he wouldn't want to waste much he's time on this strange book (happens nowdays, too) so he just tried the first few simple things that came in mind, something like a simple substitution play.
Think Marci browsing the VM while sitting in he's nice warm chair in he's calm study with nice fire in the fireplace. Browsing pages and getting a bit curious as a scientific mind usually does and at some point gets curious enough or starts to have an idea and decides to try something, reaches out for a pen and ink on the table next to the chair he starts scribbiling directly on the book as it is at that moment the most convenient place to do it, writing some substitutions to try. All in the quiet and calm of he's study. Try first page. Try another. No luck. Ok. Move on to the next thing.