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"Dragon" 25v
- "Dragon" 25v
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RE: "Dragon" 25v
Jorge_Stolfi > 05-12-2025, 07:55 PM
(05-12-2025, 06:00 AM)MarcoP Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
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In the very limited sample that I have seen, old Western pictures of dragons are generally similar. One could describe the stereotypical dragon as a Tyrannosaurus rex with bigger scales and bigger arms with large claws, bat wings, a head sort of between that of a wolf and a warthog or whatever, a tail that is a seamless extension of the body, etc.. You get the picture.
But that drawing above is atypical: a hunched bean-shaped body with a furrowed "shield" instead of scales, no wings, a tail that seems to come from under the shield...
Are there other examples of that style of "dragon"? (A "dragondillo"?)
Could that drawing be meant to be a turtle, rather than a dragon? (in the same way that the illustration at its left is meant to be a whale?)
Could that be instead a pig -- a reference to people using pigs to dig up truffles?
Is there a tradition in herbals or "herbals" associating a specific plant with turtles? Or with any other animal besides snakes and "dragons"?
All the best,
--stolfi -
RE: "Dragon" 25v
Zauriek > 22-01-2026, 06:29 AM
Seahorse:
![[Image: 513367912_1308233974493227_4459443671538...e=6977959A]](https://scontent.fmty1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/513367912_1308233974493227_4459443671538921783_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_s590x590_tt6&_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=127cfc&_nc_ohc=lN2IqMdpUlkQ7kNvwG9MNqO&_nc_oc=AdlZv3IvZ-_YCwfnujdJlqdfsE_t3IpIQfC7pUijeaJSB7jG3aC9iZf9amVaTGoNX5g&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent.fmty1-1.fna&_nc_gid=5IM2lolH734B2Eg0FWX46Q&oh=00_AfqQG8W9yfTckGV5sBeL2VVn3mcfWhgcC6SRFud42Jzo9w&oe=6977959A)
1. Explains why the arms and the tail have the same configuration
2. The strange end part recreates the loop of the sea horse. It is just badly done.
3. Ears instead of horns.
4. The hair goes on the back like in a typical sea horse drawing.
5. The bump on its head is like a baby unicorn horn.
6. The snout is resemblance of a horse.
Barnacle goose myth:
It is the reason why it has wings like a bird instead of dragon wings. If one plays attention to the "eating" you can notice the creature is not actually eating but smiling with its lower jaw attached right out of the leaf itself. This is a reference to the barnacle goose myth.
![[Image: Pierre_de_Beauvais%2C_Bestiaire_Paris%2C...._205r.jpg]](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e2/Pierre_de_Beauvais%2C_Bestiaire_Paris%2C_Library_of_the_Arsenal%2C_ms._3516_fol._205r.jpg)
Summary:
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RE: "Dragon" 25v
Jorge_Stolfi > 22-01-2026, 08:26 AM
(22-01-2026, 06:29 AM)Zauriek Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Seahorse:
Barnacle goose myth:
Quite intriguing find!
The connection to the barnacle goose myth is the overall "goose-like" shape of the beast, and that it may be hanging from the tree by the mouth. Those could be coincidences, but are suggestive indeed. Against them is the fact that the beast is obviously not a goose, and that the beast seems to be standing on the ground rather than hanging from the tree.
The beast does resemble a real seahorse, but not so much that image at the top. Maybe there is some other book with a better match?
All the best, --stolfi -
RE: "Dragon" 25v
Zauriek > 23-01-2026, 07:30 PM
Thanks for your reply.
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Reference:
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*There are cases that depicts them in different forms besides hanging out of the peak. Hope this gives it some flexibility to the idea, maybe?
![[Image: 250px-Gerald_Wales_BL_MS-1.jpg]](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a5/Gerald_Wales_BL_MS-1.jpg/250px-Gerald_Wales_BL_MS-1.jpg)
@Bernd dsaid that could be water coming from the plant, that is convenient for this seahorse argument. (There are pictures of water coming from plants in other folios.)
*My strongest reasons to be a seahorse and not a dragon is the bump on the head, hinting an unicorn like feature. Also, Maybe the fingers don't represent claws like in a dragon, they could match fins. The retracted feathers or scaled wings also appear on proper dragons or basilisks too, so it could be a common shared element i guess.
*I'm clueless and lost on how to search for something similar. There may be, but if this was an unique take on the seahorse, we may not find another picture like that.
Maybe the author took some liberties based on the medieval believe of animals transforming in other animals at different stages of growth. There is another picture depicting a variant on this myth; 79v left bottom drawing:
The seahorse is the only reference have found so far about an animal born from a leaf because they appear usually from roots, like the root-snake @Bluetoes101 mention, or like the quadruped that has roots instead of a tail in that 79v picture. The 90v root is animal shaped.
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I wish to be better at proven or disproven this argument to be honest. This stuff took me some days. thanks for reading.
This is the best that i have on the matter tho. -
RE: "Dragon" 25v
Bluetoes101 > 23-01-2026, 11:27 PM
Thanks, its an interesting idea!
The issue with animals.. especially ones the drawer imagined, is they are all over the shop. I wouldn't think many had seen a seahorse for example.
Being able to match the plant to the animal is probably the key, but as with all things Voynich when you are close(ish).. they leave you with a green plant with leaves.. tyvm Mr. Drawer
As with everything though there are many stories that cross paths, there is a "dragon" that drinks from plants/the land in manuscripts too, in the apocalypse stories - You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
It would be good to see how they approached doing a seahorse. I can't recall seeing one off the top of my head.
Bonus for fun - Here are some pretty bonkers "dragons" from the exact same story, I was looking at them in regards to our "armadillo" a while back.
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RE: "Dragon" 25v
Aga Tentakulus > 24-01-2026, 06:01 AM
Just by the way:
It is Saint Margaret of Antioch.
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Saint Margaret is the patron saint of virgins, wives and farmers. She is considered the advocate of the poor and is invoked against mental illness and (marital) infertility. She is prayed to for a happy birth.
The saint came to be the patron saint of women in labour because of the legend that she was swallowed by a dragon in prison, but was torn apart by her sign of the cross, allowing the virgin to emerge from its body unharmed. -
RE: "Dragon" 25v
Bluetoes101 > 24-01-2026, 11:25 PM
Yep^
I became interested because of the virgin links and "dead dragon". Her whole story has other similarities with f80v, but as whole I'm not sure I see it really.. but it's in my list of interesting maybes
From Wiki "In art, she is often represented as a shepherdess, or pictured escaping from, or standing above, a dragon. While Western iconography typically depicts St. Margaret emerging from the dragon, Eastern Byzantine iconography tends to focus on her battle with the demon in her cell and depicts her grabbing him by his hair and swinging a copper hammer at his face."
Though, another version is “The holy margaret […] grabbed the devil by the hair and threw him to the ground"
I also found an image of her and the dragon above a cloud band but I can't find it now.. there's one of them on a cloud I have to hand.
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RE: "Dragon" 25v
Aga Tentakulus > 25-01-2026, 12:54 AM
Somewhere there is the nymph with the cross in her hand. There may be something to it. Help with childlessness. -
RE: "Dragon" 25v
R. Sale > 25-01-2026, 01:54 AM
The spindle is the right idea. However, note the "gewolkt" (formerly nebuly) line pattern that supports the female figure. Gewolkt lines as wolkenbands can represent cosmic boundaries, giving the lady certain "celestial" implications. Thus, the spindle also has cosmic connections and can be interpreted as the cosmic spindle, held by Ananke, aka Lady Necessity.
The nymph with the cross is paired with the reclining nymph holding up a ring. An interesting coincidental match to two dreams from the biography of Colette of Corbie. Plus, her connections with fertility and birth. And being contemporary with the C-14 dates.
The marginal illustrations in the balneological section are like a collection of "name it and claim it" visual vignettes.