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• Religious references

  R. Sale > 11-06-2024, 08:27 PM

  While some investigators have indicated a lack religious references in the VMs, there may be more than those two crosses first recognized as potential objects of reference to medieval religious beliefs, but their full interpretation remains unclear.
  
  Something that goes unnoticed, because it is not present, is the 'absence' of planetary spheres in the VMs cosmos. What is revealed by this absence? The "scientific" knowledge of the planetary spheres is simply not presented.
  
  This simplified structural representation of the universe is seen in the cosmic diagrams from BNF Fr. 565 and Harley 334, which share a (1400-1450) provenance that starts in Paris. The VMs artist adopts the cosmic structure, totally alters the appearance, and then plays hide and seek with the 43 undulations that match the 'Oresme' version from the BNF. It's as clear as the cosmic wheel that some level of deception has been used. The use of duality on VMs White Aries was intentional and the prior placement of the two tubs with the papelonny patterns was no accident.
  
  The VMs cosmos shares the structure of the anti-scientific *Parisian* cosmic diagrams produced coincident with the VMs C-14 dating. After the French disaster at Avignon (1415), many noble families were headed by women. BNF Fr. 565 went to Marie de Berry who was Duchess of Auvergne.
  
  Does the potentially anti-scientific VMs cosmic diagram indicate the possibility of a more pro-religious inclination for the VMs text in general?

• RE: Religious references

  BessAgritianin > 12-06-2024, 04:44 AM

  (11-06-2024, 08:27 PM)R. Sale Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Does the potentially anti-scientific VMs cosmic diagram indicate the possibility of a more pro-religious inclination for the VMs text in general?

  
  No. 
  Who makes you think it is anti-scientific? For its time and purpose it is completely a scientific work.
  The document is a manual of an ancient healer. The astrological charts are a calendar for him. So why do you expect some deep astrological sin?
  If we ask a todays doctor what he knows about the stars, their names and movements and compare to the VM knowledge about this, who will be more knowledgeable?
  BR

• RE: Religious references

  R. Sale > 12-06-2024, 06:06 PM

  The VMs cosmos clearly does not fit the standard model found in medieval astronomical and astrological sources.
  
  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
  
  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
  
  Instead of the standard poly-concentric structure of elements, planets, and heavens, the structure seen in the VMs cosmos is clearly atypical, to say the least. It all gets simplified into just three parts: earth, stars, and cosmic boundary. Then, an explanation is needed for the large "wheel" with eight curved spokes.
  
  Planets would be essential to an astronomer. They would also be important to an astrologer. But astrology, like the Zodiac Man, does not require planets. Botanists and herbalists would not require planetary information.
  
  The fact that interpretation of plants according to traditional "Mary Garden" names indicates a connection between violets (Mary's modesty) and the biblical Annunciation and then a connection between costmary and the Assumption of Mary, could be indications of additional references to religious content. This could be part of the VMs artist's choice to create this "special" cosmic diagram. The other side of the coin is what is happening in Paris (1400-1450). Does political unrest enhance religious tendencies?

• RE: Religious references

  R. Sale > 24-10-2024, 08:36 PM

  As different investigations have added their information, there is a growing set of religious interpretations beyond the two subtle crosses in the VMs illustrations. Each of these investigations is a story in itself, but it is also important to get a brief summary and overview of all potential religious interpretations in the VMs.
  
  1] violets - conjoined MM structure. Mary's Modesty - a reference to the Annunciation
  2] costmary & wing-like roots. The herb of the Virgin & St. Michael's wings <psychopomp> - a reference to the Assumption of the Virgin Mary.
  3] "rho-chi" <=> "chi- rho" - a Christian reference in Greek.
  4] the Fieschi popes & the cardinal's red galero
  5] VMs Virgo and the Virgin Mary (on a crescent Moon) combined.
  6] the cross held by a nymph, plus a ring held by a 'sleeping' nymph - a reference to Colette of Corbie.
  7] a wreath surrounding a crescent moon - the Wreath of the Virgin (still a contemporary tradition).
  
  Mariology was strong during the VMs C-14 dates. Colette of Corbie fl. 1410-1440.
  
  Additions & discussion welcome.
  
  There are things to be learned in the VMs illustrations.

• RE: Religious references

  Koen G > 24-10-2024, 09:57 PM

  I'm still inclined to believe there is a mariological angle. But I haven't studied this in a long time, so nothing to add...

• RE: Religious references

  BessAgritianin > 27-10-2024, 08:39 AM

  (12-06-2024, 06:06 PM)R. Sale Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.But astrology, like the Zodiac Man, does not require planets. Botanists and herbalists would not require planetary information.

  
    Incorrect statement.
     Any self- respecting ancient healer was an astrologer too.
  The below text is from a medieval doctors book in the foreword part of it. And explains that there is no perfect doctor, without astrology science, Because everything is ruled from above, as the greatest astrologer Ptolomeus had explained.
  Also, there is another very useful figure, which is to be found in medieval books. This is a human figure covered by the zodiac signs showing which constellation has influence of the respective human organs.
   A picture is worth thousands of words.
  BR

• RE: Religious references

  R. Sale > 27-10-2024, 06:00 PM

  What you've stated is mostly valid. The human figure with the zodiac signs is the so-called "Zodiac Man". It clearly shows the influence astrology had on medical practice.
  
  However, if planets are *required*, where are the planets??

• RE: Religious references

  BessAgritianin > 30-10-2024, 06:09 PM

  (27-10-2024, 06:00 PM)R. Sale Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.However, if planets are *required*, where are the planets??

  The planets are also there. Guess which are they.
  BR
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