Hermes777 > 07-04-2024, 07:39 PM
bi3mw > 07-04-2024, 08:11 PM
(07-04-2024, 07:39 PM)Hermes777 Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Experts are people you consult
Hermes777 > 07-04-2024, 10:57 PM
(07-04-2024, 08:11 PM)bi3mw Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(07-04-2024, 07:39 PM)Hermes777 Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Experts are people you consult
In practice, in my opinion, serious researchers usually investigate details (individual aspects) of the VMS without asking overarching (meta-) questions. The generalists, on the other hand, often come up with a ready-made "solution" and only look for confirmation. Rarely are experts consulted in advance to check whether their own theories stand up to critical scrutiny or not. I would call such things "island solutions". Unfortunately, the quality is often rather low as a result. However, it is also possible that sometimes there is a lack of networking, i.e. the generalist does not know which experts to consult. A detective has an easier time of it. He can simply access existing structures.
Hermes777 > 07-04-2024, 11:14 PM
(07-04-2024, 08:11 PM)bi3mw Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(07-04-2024, 07:39 PM)Hermes777 Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Experts are people you consult
In practice, in my opinion, serious researchers usually investigate details (individual aspects) of the VMS without asking overarching (meta-) questions.
merrimacga > 08-04-2024, 12:54 AM
proto57 > 11-04-2024, 05:45 PM
(05-04-2024, 01:53 PM)Mark Knowles Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.There has been a lot said recently about expert opinion. I think specialist opinion(I prefer the word "specialist" to "expert") is very valuable, as I have made clear. However one should always be cognisant of what an individual's expertise is in... ...There can really be said to be no experts on the Voynich I think. However, as I have said, there is scope for specialist opinion on parallel or related subjects.
(07-04-2024, 02:57 PM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(07-04-2024, 02:49 PM)bi3mw Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.However, it is difficult to objectively assess the quality of the opinions of individual experts, as they are not on the same thematic level.I interpret this as saying that 'we' (the Voynich amateurs) are not able to do that.
I try to adhere to that as much as I can.
(07-04-2024, 11:14 PM)Hermes777 Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Researchers do good work, gather stats, trawl over manuscripts etc. and rightly it is not part of their craft to contemplate metaquestions. But then, in response to this fine work, you have people asking "So, could this be connected to Atlantis?" That's the quality of the meta questions in this game! The solution is better, more intelligent, more contextual, more considered, more useful metaquestions that help give the flood of data some structure.
merrimacga Wrote:For those who have been researching the VM for a long time, one should also consider whether they have changed their opinions over time and to what extent and in what ways. Certainly, we might lend less weight to the opinions of VM researchers who frequently flip flop between two or more divergent opinions, for example.
Mark Knowles > 11-04-2024, 06:34 PM
(11-04-2024, 05:45 PM)proto57 Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(05-04-2024, 01:53 PM)Mark Knowles Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.There has been a lot said recently about expert opinion. I think specialist opinion(I prefer the word "specialist" to "expert") is very valuable, as I have made clear. However one should always be cognisant of what an individual's expertise is in... ...There can really be said to be no experts on the Voynich I think. However, as I have said, there is scope for specialist opinion on parallel or related subjects.
Of course this refers to the thread discussing my recent blog post, "You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.", which elicited a You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. here at the Ninjas.
Mark Knowles > 12-04-2024, 06:00 PM
(11-04-2024, 05:45 PM)proto57 Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.With respect, Rene, you are an expert. And in fact, you are rightly considered the premier expert on the Voynich, however one defines such a person, as you have easily the largest and most valuable corpus of knowledge on the manuscript, in addition to having uncovered much original research of your own.
Mark Knowles > 12-04-2024, 06:16 PM
proto57 > 12-04-2024, 06:49 PM
(05-04-2024, 01:53 PM)Mark Knowles Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.There has been a lot said recently about expert opinion. I think specialist opinion(I prefer the word "specialist" to "expert") is very valuable, as I have made clear. However one should always be cognisant of what an individual's expertise is in. If, for example, they are an expert in medieval astrology, but have made a statement regarding medieval herbal manuscripts in which they are not an expert then one needs to be aware of this. The blanket using of the term expert is problematic without being very precise about what their expertise encompasses. Of course, being a specialist in an area doesn't mean you are right as specialists sometimes get things wrong. Ideally one would have the opinion of many specialists on a specific subject.
When it comes to the Voynich itself I would say that we should be very wary of considering anyone an expert on the manuscript as so little is currently know about the manuscript and so many questions are left unanswered. There can really be said to be no experts on the Voynich I think. However, as I have said, there is scope for specialist opinion on parallel or related subjects.
(12-04-2024, 06:00 PM)Mark Knowles Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(11-04-2024, 05:45 PM)proto57 Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.With respect, Rene, you are an expert. And in fact, you are rightly considered the premier expert on the Voynich, however one defines such a person, as you have easily the largest and most valuable corpus of knowledge on the manuscript, in addition to having uncovered much original research of your own.
Rich
Your ideas as to who qualifies as an expert on the Voynich manuscript are not my own as I stated on your thread. I don't consider Wilfred Voynich or Newbold to be experts.
I don't wish to stoke controversy or insult, but I certainly wouldn't consider Rene or anyone else including myself an expert on the Voynich manuscript. It seems in order to be an expert you would at least be able to answer with certainty who wrote the manuscript and what it says. So little is known for certain about the manuscript that I think it dangerous to regard anyone as an expert on it. One can be knowledgeable about existing research into it and debates which have taken place, but I don't think that is the same as being an expert.
In fact if you are right that it is a forgery then Rene and most other people have been completely wrong about the manuscript, which hardly qualifies them to be experts.