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I've found the author of Voynich manuscript. He was Giovanni Aurispa.
- I've found the author of Voynich manuscript. He was Giovanni Aurispa.
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RE: I've found the author of Voynich manuscript. He was Giovanni Aurispa.
Aga Tentakulus > 22-02-2024, 11:52 AM
I have just realised that we are in the "New Members Welcome Area".
All posts will probably disappear into oblivion. A pity really. And above all, everything will be repeated with the next new person.
Thank you -
RE: I've found the author of Voynich manuscript. He was Giovanni Aurispa.
merrimacga > 22-02-2024, 12:20 PM
Aga makes a good point. Perhaps this discussion should be moved to the Analysis of the Text forum.
Regarding, the gender statistics, I am a woman, and a bit of a feminist, but I agree with Koen. I am not yet a "solver" but I doubt gender statistics in this case, even if such could be known, would be anything more than distracting and that is bad for VM research. But let me add to this that the same thing is true regarding any other demographic statistic: race, ethnicity, regional characteristic, age, gender identity, educational background or social class. One of the wonderful things about science is that when it is at its best, it transcends all boundaries and demographics. I would hope that here in this community we can see past all of our differences and focus on the work being done. Every participant here has something to contribute and the very nature of our differences aids our research.
So let's stay on point and help Rustandi however we can without any bias or preconceptions, wherever possible. Likely the only statistics that will be of any value in this discussion will be how valid/accurate Rustandi's system is, both on its own merit and in comparison with other translation systems.
On a separate note, I freely admit I'm no good at VM linguistics or codicology but one scary thing that has occurred to me countless times as I have read such discussions on this site is what if the translation is in a You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. JKP brought this up specifically in a couple of posts in the 116v thread back in 2017 (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.) but didn't elaborate. I don't think anyone else has specifically, most likely for the same reasons as JKP indicated: the relative unlikeliness of solving the VM if a macaronic language is involved. What had me thinking it might be a macaronic language, beyond all the medieval literary evidence of such, is my own family background, which, on my mother's side, is Acadian French. My mother's mother and her immediate family were all fluent in rural Maine Canadian French and later learned fluency in rural Maine American English in school. Their fluency in these dialects of these languages was such that what they spoke is considered Franglais/Frenglish, a relatively recent macaronic language, and they were never aware they were ever speaking more than one language. Dinner conversations were sometimes quite frustrating and I call tell you some of the words didn't translate in either source language. Imagine if the VM's authors were likewise fluent in a macaronic language and then imagine translating the VM glyphs to such a language without a key.
Many macaronic languages have been identified, at least some of which existed at the time the VM was written, per the radiocarbon dating. It is possible there were others that have not yet been identified. This might especially be true in medieval times in regions where there were sizable transplanted populations from other distant and not so distant regions. To match the VM script to a macaronic language, one may need to know more about the authors first. Otherwise we're just hunting for the proverbial two or more language needles in a proverbial haystack of known dialects of the various languages in use at the time. Assuming, that is, the dialects that made up such a macaronic language are now known to us today, rather than being comprised of any unidentified dialects. If we knew which dialects of which languages formed the macaronic language used, if such was the case, we would still have the dilemma of matching the combinations of glyphs to those languages, no doubt with certain words being unique to the macaronic language and the rest of the glyph combinations matching words found in one or more of the dialects that made up the macaronic language.
This would mean that no one system based on translating to a single specific language or dialect of a language will ever fully translate the VM and might explain why all systems developed thus far have gaps or require rule exceptions or have to make certain allowances in order for them to work to any degree. This also means a lot of systems shouldn't just be ruled out because they don't fully work. It would be interesting to see if any system could be used in conjunction with one or more other systems to fully translate the VM. And it may be worth looking at Rushtandi's system from this perspective.
One question I'm sure you will all ask is how could the VM have been so fluidly written if a set of glyphs translates to a macaronic language. The answer is likely the same as the presence of the glyphs themselves: very likely a key was used, at least in the beginning, until the authors could fluidly write and read the VM without the use of the key. There is a prevailing theory, possibly proven, that the VM was written by more than one author, in which case all its authors would have had to have been fluent in the macaronic language used, meaning they likely would have all been from the same region, living in the same region, and with the same ethnic background. -
RE: I've found the author of Voynich manuscript. He was Giovanni Aurispa.
monisusa > 22-02-2024, 05:20 PM
[quote="Aga Tentakulus" pid='57822' dateline='1708559645']
Vielleicht sollte man zunächst nach einer Erklärung für das Ungewöhnliche suchen.
Beispielsweise ist der Buchstabe „K“ auch gleichbedeutend mit „C“.
Im lateinischen Wort „Kalenda“ erscheint das „K“ vorne, aber kaum jemals im Wort. Im Wort wird üblicherweise der Buchstabe „C“ verwendet.
So gesehen wäre es nun auch ein Starter.
Jetzt ist es plötzlich nicht mehr seltsam, jetzt ist es sogar ein möglicher Hinweis.
[/Zitat]
Absolutely correct! It can represent both phonem k and c, even g and more. Pronounciation here in brackets:
circus 1. c = (german: ts), 2. c = (k)
circa 1. c = (german: ts) 2. c = (k)
calc 1. c = (german: kh) 2. c = (kh) (german: Kalk, engl. lime)
tac c = g (middlehigh german), modern German spelling Tag, engl. like bug)
ricinus c = (latin: ts)
col c = (khol), (german: Kohl, engl. cole)
ect* c = (german: echt*, spanish j like jefe, jerez)k
ece* c = (german: Ecke*, engl. like "rock")
* In German manuscripts „ c“ sometimes represents „ch“ und „ck“, "echt" or in "Ecke". (engl.: real,corner).
I think thats how the glyph "c" it is used in the VM and thats why there are so many c-glyphs. Apart from that glyph "c" most likely represents also the vowel e. This was perhaps done in the VM to make the script look beautiful and impressive but perhaps also to confuse the reader. At the time the kind of spelling was often rich in variety depending on the scribe`s preference, linguistic and social background and the scriptorium. -
RE: I've found the author of Voynich manuscript. He was Giovanni Aurispa.
tavie > 22-02-2024, 09:48 PM
(22-02-2024, 08:07 AM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.In short, before you know it, you'd be organizing a public tribunal about dozens of people's behavior (people of all genders) and it would lead to great bitterness.
Apologies for not expressing this clearly. I meant this as a hypothetical - that's why I said it was probably impossible to ascertain any such trend. At no point did I mean I expected such a study to ever happen (quite the opposite), and I definitely did not mean I would seek to start it: I made that post only because Ruby's reply made me realize my earlier musings could be interpreted as implying women are more likely to publish wrong solutions. -
RE: I've found the author of Voynich manuscript. He was Giovanni Aurispa.
bi3mw > 24-02-2024, 03:37 PM
Although I am dubious about the way Rustandi came to this conclusion, a figure like Giovanni Aurispa is certainly a possible candidate for the "translation" of the VMS. There will have been other, unknown travelers who ensured a lively "import" of works of antiquity to Europe (early Renaissance). Aurispa is merely one of the well-known humanists with an extensive catalog of works. Translation work (whatever it may have looked like) was also carried out by others.
Here is an article on Giovanni Aurispa in Constantinople ( translated from German ):
Aurispa en.pdf (Size: 221.37 KB / Downloads: 10)
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RE: I've found the author of Voynich manuscript. He was Giovanni Aurispa.
Rustandi > 10-03-2024, 04:08 AM
Thank you bi3mw for your interest on G. Aurispa. I am fully aware my translation is far from perfection. Nevertheless, all of us here present to discuss everything that anyone find about VMS, whether they are right or wrong. Because we all are still trying to figure it out. So, i would like to share another finding, but here i will not give full translation only few of the words. We still could understand what the author, G. Aurispa, wanted to explained.
I have underlined few words in the manuscript to make translation. As we can see the first two words are explaining about lily flower that has shapes like oblique tub, it could be arum lily, calla lily, or any other type lily that has its shapes. All of them are included in one group, Zantedeschia. Other translations explain about its habitat and growth. So, this page give us information on Zantedeschia plant. -
RE: I've found the author of Voynich manuscript. He was Giovanni Aurispa.
Rustandi > 01-04-2024, 12:44 AM
Here is another finding i have in the manuscript. This page explains about earthworm, especially about its reproduction and types of setae in the first paragraph.