ReneZ > 04-04-2024, 10:16 AM
(03-04-2024, 06:56 PM)proto57 Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view."Were it not for the sunflower [as identified by O'Neill]... I should have thought that it was executed a little earlier, say about 1470. However, since the style of the drawings is fairly provincial, a somewhat later date, even the first years of the sixteenth century, would not seem to be excluded. I would not go lower than ca. 1510-1520 because no influence of the Italian Renaissance style is evident.
proto57 > 04-04-2024, 01:24 PM
(04-04-2024, 10:16 AM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(03-04-2024, 06:56 PM)proto57 Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view."Were it not for the sunflower [as identified by O'Neill]... I should have thought that it was executed a little earlier, say about 1470. However, since the style of the drawings is fairly provincial, a somewhat later date, even the first years of the sixteenth century, would not seem to be excluded. I would not go lower than ca. 1510-1520 because no influence of the Italian Renaissance style is evident.
So if you don't wish to include the 1410-1430 range, then the only way to read the above is as:
1470 = preferred date or lower end
1510-1520 = upper end
That gives a range of 1470-1520.
proto57 > 04-04-2024, 03:46 PM
(04-04-2024, 08:36 AM)Aga Tentakulus Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.But there is something that disproves a modern forgery and supports the C-14 dating.
It's not the wormhole, it's the feeding tracks. Since this type of worm does not occur in the present lid, but certainly in wood. So where is the lid?
The sequence: parchment, writing, lid, worm.
Aga Tentakulus > 04-04-2024, 08:43 PM
proto57 > 04-04-2024, 09:38 PM
(04-04-2024, 08:43 PM)Aga Tentakulus Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.It's not the wormhole, it's the structure of the feeding site.
They are not insect holes either, but those of a woodworm.
These go into wood. So where is the wooden lid and when was it rebound?
The feeding marks run across the line and not lengthways, which makes it impossible to scrape them out. And scratching is not possible either, it is parchment and leaves fibres behind. You can't burn it off either, it leaves marks. The scan is so accurate that you could make a denture for the worm. What does it look like under the microscope?
Getting a worm of this type to eat parchment will not work. It might still be possible with insects.
For me, you just can't explain it and would prefer to have it off the table. Your arguments don't hold water.
With Vinland. Vinland is Vinland and VM is VM. There are 2 books, one is in Lucerne and has no map. But the story is real. Vinland was described by an abbot for the King of Denmark exactly what the church still had in its archives, that was around 1050.
Only the map is false, the rest is genuine.
PM
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proto57 > 04-04-2024, 09:47 PM
(04-04-2024, 08:43 PM)Aga Tentakulus Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.PS: Original VM hole.
f1r, 4 paragraph, top right. Beetle damage and not insects.
In terms of size, either....
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Aga Tentakulus > 04-04-2024, 11:05 PM
proto57 > 04-04-2024, 11:45 PM
(04-04-2024, 11:05 PM)Aga Tentakulus Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.You're right about that. They are both insects.
But I think you've already understood what I mean. One is more like a fly with small holes, and the other is more like a beetle. It's also called a bark beetle.
My examples explain the difference.
And again, my one example is in the VM on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. at the bottom.
And again the type of feeding marks. You won't find them on the flies.
Then try it in your garden. Keep a larva in place until it eats the parchment. That really amazes me too.
That's it for me too.
ReneZ > 05-04-2024, 01:28 AM
(04-04-2024, 01:24 PM)proto57 Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view."I would go no lower than ca. 1510-1520 because no influence of the Italian Renaissance style is evident"
proto57 > 05-04-2024, 02:42 PM
(05-04-2024, 01:28 AM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(04-04-2024, 01:24 PM)proto57 Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view."I would go no lower than ca. 1510-1520 because no influence of the Italian Renaissance style is evident"
Possibly the confusion is that the word lower can only mean "nearer to present", so "lower" should be read as "later".