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Dragons, Dogs & Amadillos?

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• Dragons, Dogs & Amadillos?

• RE: Dragons, Dogs & Amadillos?

  Linda > 11-02-2017, 05:17 PM

  my favourite id for this is also the ram. the related golden fleece idea is also interesting, both in relation the Order formed in 1430, which seems timely, and in relation to gold collection from mountain rivers:
  
  
  

  Quote:A more widespread interpretation relates the myth of the fleece to a method of washing gold from streams, which was well attested (but only from c. 5th century BCE) in the region of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. to the east of the Black Sea. Sheep fleeces, sometimes stretched over a wood frame, would be submerged in the stream, and You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. flecks borne down from upstream You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. deposits would collect in them. The fleeces would be hung in trees to dry before the gold was shaken or combed out. Alternatively, the fleeces would be used on washing tables in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. of gold or on washing tables at deep You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. Judging by the very early gold objects from a range of cultures, washing for gold is a very old human activity.
  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. describes the way in which gold could be washed:
  

  Quote:"It is said that in their country gold is carried down by the mountain torrents, and that the barbarians obtain it by means of perforated troughs and fleecy skins, and that this is the origin of the myth of the golden fleece—unless they call them Iberians, by the same name as the western Iberians, from the gold mines in both countries.

  
  Jason and the Argonauts' trail sometimes includes parts of the Swiss Alps as well.
  
  In the mountain stream sense I can still see the stance of the animal as representing the Swiss Alps, and showing that fresh water (the blue) comes down from the heavens to form the now mostly Italian lakes that I also believe are being discussed on the page (and also Lake Constance, on the other side of the Alps, and also on the other side of the page from the nymph found below this animal) 
  Perhaps gold/other minerals  referenced in the other more greenish colour painted on the animal itself?
  Maybe that is what the rings signify - places where precious metals (especially gold) are found? My identification of the other two ring bearers are as one being near India and the other near the Black Sea, both places are historically known for it (see above re Georgia)
  
  there is also the Aries aspect of the connection with the ram, and perhaps this falls in line with the astrological ages - the age of Aries is in terms of timing BCE, indicating old information? this connects back to the golden fleece being an old concept, the mountains are older still.

• RE: Dragons, Dogs & Amadillos?

  VViews > 26-02-2017, 01:30 PM

  This image is a detail from You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. of a late 15thC German mnemonic bible in Providence Public Library's You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.:
  
  
  The mnemonic here is that the dead cattle on a raining cloud stands for plagues 5 and 7 among the plagues of Egypt: the dead livestock and the thunderstorm of hail and fire. On the right we have plague 6: the boils.
  
  Yeah I know the dead beast here looks different and is the wrong way around lying on his back, but it's a tempting parallel for the overall composition, no?

• RE: Dragons, Dogs & Amadillos?

  R. Sale > 26-02-2017, 08:37 PM

  Well, you've got your bad rain, and you've got your good rain. After a volcanic eruption, you can get some really bad rain. Maybe the VMs is the good rain? Does the idea or the mythology of the rain dragon occur during the time of VMs composition?  Probably so. How should that creature appear? Who are we to say?
  
  That looks like an illustration of the bad kind of rain.

• RE: Dragons, Dogs & Amadillos?

  VViews > 07-08-2017, 09:25 AM

  Another parallel for this animal's pose is found in certain depictions of the Agnus Dei on the book of Revelations.
  
  So far I have only found this specific motif in sculpture, but it is good to keep in mind for those who argue that the animal's round back in this pose and lack of horns is incompatible with an ovine creature.
  
  St Vincent Abbey, Senlis, France, 13th C:
  
  
  Undated sculpture, Saint Bernard d'Olt, Espalion, France:
  
  
  14th C, Chiesa Madre, Erice, Sicily:
  
  
  Another undated one, from the tabernacle of Bailly church (13th-15th-17thC construction), Noisy, France:
  
  
  
  Yeah, I know, it's a book, not a nebuly thing, but the pose is a pretty good match, and the way the seven seals hang down is also an interesting parallel for the vertical lines of "rain" below the Voynich creature's "cloud/pillow".
  
  Also, notice that the last one is surrounded by clouds. Apparently this is to show that the scene is part of a vision.

• RE: Dragons, Dogs & Amadillos?

  Koen G > 26-08-2018, 09:02 PM

  I am proposing a new inspiration for this beast: the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., a type of dragon featured in the Golden Legend. 
  
  

  Quote:A further legend relates that Martha then went to Tarascon, France, where a monster, the Tarasque, was a constant threat to the population. The Golden Legend describes it as a beast from Galicia; a great dragon, half beast and half fish, greater than an ox, longer than a horse, having teeth sharp as a sword, and horned on either side, head like a lion, tail like a serpent, that dwelt in a certain wood between Arles and Avignon. Holding a cross in her hand, Martha sprinkled the beast with holy water. Placing her sash around its neck, she led the tamed dragon through the village.

  
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  It's possible that a Golden Legend illustration may have influenced the appearance of our beast. This one is from: « La Legende dorée » [de JACQUES DE VORAGINE], traduction [de JEAN DE VIGNAY] Date d'édition : 1404 Français 414 Folio 221r.
  
     
  
  Note the contorted form, explicit scales, split fish tail, confusing head, short legs with paws...

• RE: Dragons, Dogs & Amadillos?

  -JKP- > 27-08-2018, 12:27 AM

  I've collected many tarasque pics, mainly because some medieval zodiac depictions of Scorpius are tarasque-like but I never thought to connect the "pangolin" creature with the tarasque. The picture you posted does make it seem possible, however.

• RE: Dragons, Dogs & Amadillos?

  Wladimir D > 27-08-2018, 05:59 AM

  In the figure "pangolin" there is a significant error, on the basis of which, along with others (as in the images of the legs of the cancer, the lack of the axis of rotation of the weigher, the input of the trigger of the crossbow (?)), we can say that the artist was not a scientist (at least in area of zoology and mechanics).
  
  Fishes, snakes, armadillos, pangolins have scales, which are directed in the opposite direction, relative to the picture of "pangolin" in VMS. Otherwise, animals will cling to walking around surrounding objects.

• RE: Dragons, Dogs & Amadillos?

  Koen G > 27-08-2018, 10:21 AM

  True, Wladimir, although the Pisces fish have been drawn in line with tradition and the scales have been placed correctly. I wonder if it's possible that the scales are backwards to show that the creature is a "freak of nature" (as a dragon or other monster would be). I haven't found any parallels in other sources for this though.

• RE: Dragons, Dogs & Amadillos?

  bi3mw > 27-08-2018, 10:28 AM

  In his opening post, @Vviews has linked to the "Order of the Dragon" (Societas Draconistarum). This is interesting because others see the illustration on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. as an order sign as well. It is the "Order of the Golden Fleece". The order was founded in 1430. Later, Rudolf II was a member.
  
  
  
  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. bottom right  / chain "Order of the Golden Fleece"

• RE: Dragons, Dogs & Amadillos?

  -JKP- > 27-08-2018, 11:01 PM

  I had a partially finished blog on sheep drawings that might be relevant. I don't have time to finish it properly, but I tried to clean it up quickly and have decided to post it in its semi-finished form (I have many more sheep drawings but I don't know if I'll ever find time to write them all up). So, in case it's of interest:
  
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