DONJCH > 06-06-2019, 11:01 AM
(06-06-2019, 12:24 AM)Linda Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(28-08-2018, 01:56 AM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.If we take out the parts where the ink is darker, we're left with something like this:
Am i not seeing some pics? I didn't see the one Koen posted that you are talking about either, is it somewhere else?
Koen G > 06-06-2019, 11:42 AM
-JKP- > 06-06-2019, 02:17 PM
Linda > 06-06-2019, 09:33 PM
Koen G > 06-06-2019, 09:48 PM
(06-06-2019, 02:17 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.There are several long-eared, long-nosed mammalian creatures with fish-tails, but I like the ones Koen posted because they have scales (many of the fish-mammal hybrid drawings in that series of manuscripts are without scales).
-JKP- > 06-06-2019, 10:36 PM
(06-06-2019, 09:48 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(06-06-2019, 02:17 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.There are several long-eared, long-nosed mammalian creatures with fish-tails, but I like the ones Koen posted because they have scales (many of the fish-mammal hybrid drawings in that series of manuscripts are without scales).
Yeah, and it wasn't really fixed between manuscripts, copyists would blend properties or add their own twists (often the text does not match at all or only partially describes the physical traits of the animal). It does not require much deviation to get the permutation present in the VM.
This all comes down to the (to me) fascinating question which kind of Cantimpré(tradition) manuscript the VM could have sampled from. My impression is often that it is stylistically close to the German examples, but - given parallels and differences with Valenciennes 320 - sits on a different node of transmission than the particular German manuscripts I have viewed. The Czech line is further removed both stylistically and in terms of content. The same goes for the Maerlant line. So something between the French originals and the German copies remains plausible.
Linda > 08-06-2019, 04:39 PM
(06-06-2019, 11:42 AM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I revoke everything I've posted to this thread before and replace it by this You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
In short, I think the picture was taken, directly or indirectly, from the chapter on sea monsters from a MS in the Cantimpré tradition. There are a number of creatures depicted in this way, with scales, a split tail and paws:
Koen G > 08-06-2019, 05:12 PM
Quote:Kylion is a rather marvelous sea animal, as Aristoteles says, in which it is believed that either nature erred or changed its usual order. But it is not the case to believe that nature erred: indeed it designed everything well and all things were created in a right and appropriate way. In fact, while in all the animals on earth, small all large, it placed the liver at the right and the spleen at the left, in kylion it placed the spleen at the right and the liver at the left.
Linda > 08-06-2019, 06:09 PM
Oocephalus > 08-06-2019, 08:29 PM