Sam G > 25-02-2016, 06:50 PM
(24-02-2016, 05:41 PM)MarcoP Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Hello Sam, I am not an expert in the field of medieval cryptography, but I would like to share with you some evidence that you might consider.Interesting examples, but for one thing these all look like simple substitution ciphers (other than the Lingua Ignota), where if you know the alphabet used you can read it "as is" without writing out the plaintext. But we can be sure that the VMS not such a simple substitution cipher of a European language, so the point I made above about needing to copy out the text, and then presumably also the illustrations in many cases, still applies.
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It seems to me that, even if the surviving evidence of Medieval cryptography is quite limited, it is compatible with what we observe in the Voynich manuscript.
(24-02-2016, 06:36 PM)-Job- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I interpret the second half of your original post as arguing that the cipher hypothesis is improbable because you can't relate to how or why it might have been used.
Quote:Your point about verbose cipher and word lengths i agree with and won't dispute (nor is it my job to), though it's worth mentioning that, if you accept the possibility of a cipher, then spaces may play a different a role.
Quote:The low entropy of the text is not exclusive to a verbose cipher, or at least i don't see why it should be. For example, a code book approach using roman numerals would probably have low second-order character entropy as well, even though it is the opposite of a verbose cipher.
MarcoP > 25-02-2016, 07:29 PM
Sam G > 25-02-2016, 07:48 PM
(25-02-2016, 07:29 PM)MarcoP Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Hi Sam, in my opinion, the only case in which the goal could have been hiding information from the church is BNF 7272 (but this case is also doubtful).
Hildegard's lingua ignota could have been motivated by some mystical purpose (and I think this could also be the case with BNF 7272).
The other cases (medical and engineering manuscripts by Foxton, Fontana etc) were apparently meant to protect professional secrets. For instance, what makes you think that Fontana's goal was protecting himself from the church?
-JKP- > 26-02-2016, 03:49 AM
Davidsch > 03-03-2016, 05:51 PM
Quote:JKP:
I think there's a strong possibility it's polyglot.
Quote:JKP:
I think it might be heavily abbreviated as was common at the time.
Quote:Sam G:
As of 2016, nobody has ever developed a cipher capable of replicating even a fraction of the VMS text's properties..
Quote:Sam G:
One of the most remarkable aspects of the VMS script is that it is designed to highlight and emphasize the structure of the text. This is completely contrary to the purpose of cryptography, which is to conceal any structure in the ciphertext in order to make it more difficult to crack. However, creating such a script is perfectly logical to do if you are designing one for a natural language.
Quote:-Job-:
Is there a language or cipher that matches all of Voynichese's features? I think that should be the focus of this discussion.
Quote:Sam G:
Some people say it was encrypted to protect its creator from the church. Apparently this is the church that hates information about herbs, but has no problem with naked women swimming in pools of green fluid.
Quote:MarcoP:
The other cases (medical and engineering manuscripts by Foxton, Fontana etc) were apparently meant to protect professional secrets. For instance, what makes you think that Fontana's goal was protecting himself from the church?
-JKP- > 03-03-2016, 06:46 PM
Diane > 04-03-2016, 12:59 AM
Davidsch > 07-03-2016, 01:41 PM
Quote:JKP:
nøca uøyo adre isth ?
Note the null char for words with an odd number of letters. Another null char (a different one) can be added so that words are of both odd and even length so as not to give the system away:
nøcña uøyoñ adre ñisth ?
-JKP- > 07-03-2016, 06:41 PM
(07-03-2016, 01:41 PM)Davidsch Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view....
If there are ms of such please let me know asap. As much as possible text would be very nice. As old as possible.
david > 08-03-2016, 02:04 PM