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The containers in the Pharma section
- The containers in the Pharma section
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RE: The containers in the Pharma section
RobGea > 01-12-2025, 01:00 PM
If they are imaginary vessels, it is curious how each pharma page has containers of a generally similar type.
If you divide them into 2 groups, say tubular and curvy, then no page shows a mix of container types.
It is really clear in Quire 19,
folio 88 has containers that are a mix of curvy and tubular ( which is annoying ) but even those containers still resemble each other. -
RE: The containers in the Pharma section
ReneZ > 01-12-2025, 01:05 PM
OK, I don't want to push the idea that they are imaginary.
It seems entirely plausible to me that they are meant to represent containers of the medicine that the book is describing (in pictures and perhaps also in words).
However, their particular shapes may not correspond with existing containers, but be based on fantasy. -
RE: The containers in the Pharma section
RobGea > 01-12-2025, 02:05 PM
*thinks out loud* Also i wonder, if the container base types ( flat, footed, pedestal ) represent function or maybe production process. -
RE: The containers in the Pharma section
Bluetoes101 > 01-12-2025, 05:53 PM
I thought these were interesting, I can only find these 2, but it says there were thought to be over 20 vessels made.
They are not what we are looking for, but the Gilded-Silver parts "The Museum's cup, remarkably, retains its medieval mount, which bears comparison to goldsmith's work created in Prague and preserved in the cathedral treasury.", and just having mounts on this sort of stuff is hard to find.
They are both 1350–80, mount on ewer thought to be a "ca. 1400" addition. They were both made for Emperor Charles IV in Prague.
He also had a sceptre made from the same material - You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
"For the extremely difficult task of working these stones, he brought gem cutters from Paris and Venice to Prague. From the minerals typical of Bohemian deposits, they carved both vessels for Charles's court and slabs with which the emperor had the walls of individual chapels clad."
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Given the similarity with the shape of this (small one) Jewish perfume/spice box (brought up in this thread before), and that also being silver and precious stone. I am wondering if this silver/stone mix is worth further rummaging around in.. it might also explain how much intricate design this VMS vessel has on (if it is not just meant to be stacked up symbolism). It would also answer the use of bases and feet, which you tend not to see on pottery/glass vessels.
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RE: The containers in the Pharma section
Bluetoes101 > 01-12-2025, 08:43 PM
(01-12-2025, 02:05 PM)RobGea Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.*thinks out loud* Also i wonder, if the container base types ( flat, footed, pedestal ) represent function or maybe production process.
I'm starting to think there's some scope for some of the ones with feet being something a exotic as a "cup"
The whole rock+gilt silver thing has been popping up with some decent comparisons
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RE: The containers in the Pharma section
Koen G > 01-12-2025, 09:46 PM
Beautiful items!
It's probably not unreasonable to assume that there were once many more of these vessels that might be of interest to us, but only a fraction of them survived. -
RE: The containers in the Pharma section
Bluetoes101 > 01-12-2025, 11:05 PM
Surely they are trying to show this one is hung up... right?
*Its worth noting that the wrapped lines on the lid stem only happen on this vessels drawing. Part of me thinks it was tied with string which had a hook on the end to hang.
But I might be needlessly complicating things doing a "looks like".
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RE: The containers in the Pharma section
Koen G > 01-12-2025, 11:14 PM
That's an interesting case, cause they would be drawing with paint without an outline. Might it have been a mistake, actually meant for the top part? I'm thinking of the runny yellow against gravity Stolfi mentioned in the other thread.
By the way, I always thought that top looks like a cute little snake, but that's probably pareidolia. -
RE: The containers in the Pharma section
Bluetoes101 > 01-12-2025, 11:39 PM
Maybe an egg eating snake?
They do it again here paint wise, but complete the loop (sort of).
Interestingly these 2 vessels are the only 2 that have dots on the lid bit under what I'm seeing as a hook
Obviously they are not this but a Pomander is in the same line of things as censers
doing 2+2=22, but .. maybe a thread to pull on -
RE: The containers in the Pharma section
ReneZ > 01-12-2025, 11:58 PM
Maybe a good point to revive the comparison with You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..
The modern examples have a remarkable resemblance with the more elaborate containers in the MS, but I have never been able to find original or at least older examples.
Google searches return many more examples, mostly on commercial sites.