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The containers in the Pharma section
- The containers in the Pharma section
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RE: The containers in the Pharma section
-JKP- > 31-08-2020, 03:39 PM
I try very hard to avoid cherry-picking words in the VMS because I know one-to-one substitution doesn't generalize and doesn't fit the statistical reality of the VMS text.
But because so many of the glyphs are Latin, it's hard to stop my brain from reading them sometimes. Like this one. In Latin (not only the glyphs but the language), is written "odorus" (it is typically written odory in Latin using the y char as an abbreviation for "us"). It's such a perfect fit with incense:
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RE: The containers in the Pharma section
Koen G > 05-10-2020, 10:17 PM
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RE: The containers in the Pharma section
arca_libraria > 26-10-2020, 11:38 PM
While I was looking for something else, I came across some interesting drawings of Jewish temple implements. The MS is Levi ben Gershon's Commentary on the Pentateuch and the manuscript is from Avignon and has been precisely dated to 1429. The whole MS (BL Add 14759) has been You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and there's a You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. The manuscript is entirely in Hebrew and it's huge, although the catalogue description indicates that the only figurative illustrations are on folios 1–3. I'm not sure whether the illustrations are by the same scribe or are of precisely the same date as the rest of the manuscript, but in my judgement, they could be from the 1429 and I would be surprised if they were added more than 50 years after the main text based on the figural style.
Note that obviously Hebrew manuscripts are read right-to-left, and so semitic-language books generally start "at the back" from the viewpoint of a non-semitic reader, but the BL has foliated this manuscript like a non-semitic manuscript. All of the folio numbers that I have used correspond to what is on the BL's website. I've posted an image (f. 3r) of an elaborate cup or censer below (I can't read Hebrew unfortunately), but there's an interesting drawing (f. 1v) of the Sacrifice of Isaac that has some artistic features that are reminiscent of the VMS as well.
![[Image: d40037-40.jpg]](http://www.bl.uk/IllImages/BLCD/mid/d400/d40037-40.jpg)
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RE: The containers in the Pharma section
DONJCH > 27-10-2020, 08:09 AM
Nice! I think the Jewish examples of accoutrements are perhaps the best match for some of the VM containers.
In these examples I particularly like the "feet" which are missing in many of the proposed parallels.
One thing I noticed recently though, correct me if I am wrong, but - there does not seem to be an actual chalice as such in the VM collection. I find that odd. -
RE: The containers in the Pharma section
CommanderData > 03-11-2023, 03:31 AM
I’m new here but after searching these threads decided to some thoughts in hopes they will be discussed and can be further developed (or disproved) through other examples and opinions. I am curious to see what other contributors think:
1) Based on the nature of those plants we can agree on, many would have been used in Europe in the 15th-16th centuries for making spiced or fortified wines (madeira, port, sherry, etc.) and Vermouth;
2) Some of the Voynich plants are used as spice/flavor, some to add health benefits to the drink, and some that serve as “companion plants” for grape vines;
2) The naked humanoids appear to be “Putti” and there are many examples of artistic representations of putti (cherub-like beings with or without wings) involved in viticulture/viniculture and frolicking while harvesting grapes and making wine;
3) The “tubes” connecting across sections and pages (depicting Putti) represent vines and the purpose is an allegory for the way the vineyards were planted, maintained, pruned, harvested, fermented, seasoned and stored;
4) The decorated containers may be spice jars, seed/spice grinders, and fermentation or distillation equipment used to process and/or store the dried parts of plants that are used in flavoring the wine / tincture / vermouth;
5) The Zodiac and astrological drawings are intended to direct the timing for various steps in the process - when to plant new vines, when to prune, harvest, etc. similar to an almanac. This may have also helped with when certain plants could be found growing wild, or when to expect the spice trade to bring needed spices not found locally;
6) Assuming either Italy or Spain in the 15th-16th century, during this time these drinks were not just for recreation - they were also used as tonics or tinctures;
7) Local vineyards were often located on the grounds of an abbey or monastery for the purpose of making sacramental wines;
8) The fold out section of interconnected areas could be:
a) A map of the different regions involved in the process (vineyard locations, spice suppliers, water sources, etc); or,
b) A “flowchart” representing phases of the process
I’m curious to hear your thoughts and happy to share background and sources for each point above. -
RE: The containers in the Pharma section
MarcoP > 14-12-2023, 11:00 AM
It is a different version of a drawing from You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. I posted in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..
The text below the two illustrations is identical. A similar caption is transcribed in this other version at the Morgan Library (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.).
Haec est figura capitelli secundum expositionem...
According to the Bodleian description of Laud Misc. 156, the illustration (bottom left in the Morgan ms M.158 page) is about "The metalwork of the Temple of Solomon. Capitals of molten brass to be set at the top of pillars."
The other parts of the page from Morgan ms M.158 appear in the previous pages of the Bodleian manuscript. They represent the plans and "elevation and façade decoration of the Temple of Solomon". -
RE: The containers in the Pharma section
Scarecrow > 03-12-2024, 02:10 PM
Some new ideas -
RE: The containers in the Pharma section
Bluetoes101 > 28-11-2025, 12:21 AM
I was wondering if anyone had some "gap fillers" for the below?. My idea was.. fancy containers, in regards to the fancy containers
Sticking my neck out!
I was looking into "show vessels"(?) used in apothecaries, not sure of the term, but a more modern version would be these bottles from 19C
vessels meant for the shop window, or front table to draw people in. Or just be fancy.
They may have evolved from "show globes", which no one seems very sure on apart from definitely 1655+ (maybe). Both would be filled with coloured liquid(s)
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These may have evolved from the "show jars", these are from 1580. The colour image one is amazing and I would click the link to have a better look.
The lid of it also, I think, would not look out of place among Cary's works, there is something very Voynich'y about it.
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Here is a 1910(?) recreation of a 16c apothecary done in a museum. I have lost the link.. but note the vessels on table (fancy!)
Then I jump to 1300 for this
So my thought is that there must be some 1300-1580 in between fancy "show vessels".. right? Just struggling to find them.
Bonus.. "feels like" (I need to ban myself from all "feels like"s)
When I first saw this image it felt like to me that it wasn't a mistake, or glass, or whatnot but the drawer was maybe trying to show inside the vessel.
What is happening in it, or what they imagine to be. What that "feels like" to me is coarse in the top "globe" and fine (like sand in an hourglass) below. The behind image is the outside of the vessel.
Be warned, this is a "feels like".
One of the earliest known peppermills for England is from the wreck of the Mary Rose 1545.
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This ash peppermill was found inside an oak chest on the Orlop deck. It comes in three parts;
the Handle/Pestle (the conical part on the left), the central mortar and the collecting cup
(both on the right.) The central mortar would have contained metal grinding plates,
against which the peppercorns would have been ground, falling through into the collecting cup
which was held in place by a locking flange. Pepper was an expensive commodity at the time,
so this item would almost certainly have belonged to an officer or been used to flavour the
food served to the officers on board.
I must assume there are earlier out there?
Anyway, if anyone has anything to plug the 1300-1580 gap of "show vessels" in apothecaries I would be really interested!
![[Image: m158.020ra.jpg]](https://ica.themorgan.org/icaimages/1/m158.020ra.jpg)