Koen G > 22-07-2023, 11:42 AM
(22-07-2023, 11:12 AM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I always considered (without knowing for certain) that use of a word as an expletive implies that the word in its regular meaning should already have existed earlier.
Anton > 22-07-2023, 12:37 PM
(21-07-2023, 04:58 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The word for six, "sex" is a common one indeed, as are certain others like ax and ox.
(21-07-2023, 04:58 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Now of course the most interesting one is "pox" for "bocks" in Fastnachtspielen. If memory serves, those are also all expletives?
(21-07-2023, 04:58 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Yeah but his Latin didn't make much sense
(22-07-2023, 11:12 AM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.There has been quite a discussion on the word 'poxleber' in the old forum
cvetkakocj@rogers.com > 22-07-2023, 05:38 PM
(22-07-2023, 11:12 AM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.There has been quite a discussion on the word 'poxleber' in the old forum
Koen G > 22-07-2023, 07:35 PM
(22-07-2023, 12:37 PM)Anton Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(21-07-2023, 04:58 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The word for six, "sex" is a common one indeed, as are certain others like ax and ox.
I think those are common in English, not in German. The point is that in German the respective common ending is "-hs" or "ck[e]s", but somehow it is changed into "-x".
ReneZ > 23-07-2023, 05:13 AM
(22-07-2023, 11:42 AM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.In Dutch, take for example a word like "potverdorie", a minced version of "godverdomme". The word "pot" exists, but "verdorie" is nonsense. And people don't tend to think of an actual pot when saying potverdorie. Words like "gosh" and "darn" don't exist either. The preexistence of a certain word may help the expletive move towards it, of course. In the Dutch example, the fact that "pot" existed already will certainly be relevant. But the minced version will be its own separate entity.
Koen G > 23-07-2023, 09:41 AM
(23-07-2023, 05:13 AM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.All of these examples are euphemisms, where the speaker prefers a 'lite' version compared to the full-blown swear word.
Aga Tentakulus > 23-07-2023, 10:59 AM
Aga Tentakulus > 23-07-2023, 11:50 AM
Anton > 23-07-2023, 12:27 PM
(23-07-2023, 09:41 AM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.2) "pox" as a minced form of Gotts
Quote:Extrem unterschiedliche Schwurformeln werden so zum historischen Anwendungsfall des Prinzips, wie
es Hughes an einem extremen Beispiel demonstriert: “‘For Christ’s sake!’ might, in other
company, transform to ‘For pity’s sake!’, ‘For shit’s sake!’ or even ‘For fuck’s sake!’. This series
might provoke the obvious (but naive) question, ‘What do Christ, pity, shit and fuck have in
common?’ The answer, in this context, is of course, ‘Nothing whatever. They are simply terms of
high emotional charge which have acreted over time into the formula to the point that they can
now be used interchangeably.’”
Koen G > 23-07-2023, 01:08 PM
(23-07-2023, 12:27 PM)Anton Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Koen, "pox" is not a minced form of Gotts. It is a minced form of "bocks". "Bocks" transgressing into "pox" is a linguistic phenomenon. Pox being used as an euphemism for Gotts is, I believe, a cultural one.
Quote:In German carnival plays, there is a lot of cursing and swearing, not least by the members of God [i.e. the curse involves pars of God's body]. Quite uninhibitedly, a fool's character on the stage can confront the Antichrist with a "Pox grind!".
The specific context of using the oath varies greatly. For example, a man responds with a swear to the praises of a quack for a miracle cure:
"Pox pauch, [God's belly] may that be a good doctor for my bellyache, who complains about his belly and hasn't farted in eight days."
In this case, the swear marks an exclamation of surprise. Of course, its real piquancy comes from the fact that the divine belly is mentioned in the same breath as the neighbor's flatulence.
An unmistakable focus of the oaths is on situations where excitement, conflicts, and aggressions dominate the field. Let's take, for example, a peasant play in which a troubled man is at the center, pursued and reviled by his quarrelsome wife. Another farmer tries to support him and put the woman in her place with strong words:
"Pox haut [God's skin], I mean, you're not clever, That you fuel such irrationality, And yet every man is a man..."
"If you were my wife," he continues, "I would teach you obedience." When she threatens him, he persists in challenging her:
"Pox leichnams willen [something like by God's dead body], just go ahead and tear at me!"
This doesn't go well for him, as he is so maltreated by the strong woman that he quickly has to call for help:
"Oh, help, dear friends, for the love of all that's sacred!"
The affirming, self-confident swearing quickly turns into a ridiculous cry for help - undoubtedly a consciously employed stylistic device to expose the protagonist's boasting.