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Part of Zodiac was added later?
- Part of Zodiac was added later?
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RE: Part of Zodiac was added later?
februs > 23-02-2022, 10:05 PM
>KoenG
excuse me. I went to the page. but I couldn't see the project.(´；ω；`)ｳｯ…
I have done sign up and log in project muse.
but I can't see the project. -
RE: Part of Zodiac was added later?
februs > 24-02-2022, 11:28 PM
(23-02-2022, 09:17 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
(23-02-2022, 09:07 PM)februs Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I think that all of VM was written by a man.
By now it is generally accepted that the VM text was written by several scribes, thanks to the work of Lisa Fagin Davis. See here: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Maybe this is what you heard? These scribes are not separated per section though. For example You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. are not written by the same person.
The conclusion is that we know for sure that several people worked on the VM, but we have no reason to assume that parts of the manuscript were added later.
thank you for URL(∩´∀｀)∩
I read the product. it is made about 23pages.
but in the table of contents is written as about 180pages.
the product is made 23pages? or 180pages?
and I can't understand the product (´-ω-`)
VM is written by 5 mans?
I can't understand the reason (´-ω-`)
if you are ok, please explanation me easyly (´・ω・`) -
RE: Part of Zodiac was added later?
Koen G > 25-02-2022, 12:24 AM
Yes, I will do my best to explain it easily
. Lisa is a professional palaeographer, which means she specialises in medieval handwriting. She studied the handwriting in the VM and determined that the main text ("Voynichese") was written by five different people. We actually suspected this already, because Prescott Currier said in the 1970's that there were at least two different scribes, but probably more. Lisa confirmed and improved these findings.
She did this by comparing a few typical letters. For example, the first writer always writes n in a certain way. The second writer writes it in a different way, and so on.This does not mean that some pages were added later. As I said before, it is well known that the plants (herbal) pages were written by two different people. Maybe they were sitting in the same room and wrote at the same time? We don't know.And this is only about the text. We don't know how many people made the images. For now, we have found no good reason to believe that the images were made by more than one person. Of course this is possible, we just don't know yet. -
RE: Part of Zodiac was added later?
R. Sale > 25-02-2022, 12:34 AM
It is proposed that there may have been 5 different scribes or persons who wrote the text of the VMs.
It is not clear whether the scribes were male or female. Chance of female perhaps up to 20%.
Relevant data is lacking.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.a
She was an author and some of her workers were female. -
RE: Part of Zodiac was added later?
februs > 25-02-2022, 06:30 AM
(25-02-2022, 12:24 AM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Yes, I will do my best to explain it easily
. Lisa is a professional palaeographer, which means she specialises in medieval handwriting. She studied the handwriting in the VM and determined that the main text ("Voynichese") was written by five different people. We actually suspected this already, because Prescott Currier said in the 1970's that there were at least two different scribes, but probably more. Lisa confirmed and improved these findings.
She did this by comparing a few typical letters. For example, the first writer always writes n in a certain way. The second writer writes it in a different way, and so on.This does not mean that some pages were added later. As I said before, it is well known that the plants (herbal) pages were written by two different people. Maybe they were sitting in the same room and wrote at the same time? We don't know.And this is only about the text. We don't know how many people made the images. For now, we have found no good reason to believe that the images were made by more than one person. Of course this is possible, we just don't know yet.
thank you for explanation(∩´∀｀)∩
now I am readiong Prescott Curresr's product.
I want to know the reason that VM is written by 5 mans.
so in the first I am reading his product.(@_@)
I want to know in detail about Lisa's consideration. -
RE: Part of Zodiac was added later?
februs > 25-02-2022, 06:33 AM
(25-02-2022, 12:34 AM)R. Sale Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.It is proposed that there may have been 5 different scribes or persons who wrote the text of the VMs.
It is not clear whether the scribes were male or female. Chance of female perhaps up to 20%.
Relevant data is lacking.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.a
She was an author and some of her workers were female.
who is You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.?
is she relation VM? -
RE: Part of Zodiac was added later?
R. Sale > 25-02-2022, 07:33 PM
Christine de Pizan was a historical person. You can look her up in the reference sources.
Firstly, she was female. Second, she was an author and she wrote her original manuscripts, and therefor is a scribe. Thirdly, she was synchronous with the early range of VMs C-14 dates. She worked in Paris and was patronized by Valois royalty. So, there are some visual indicators of historical similarities, but only on an artistic basis; cloud-bands, rainbows, nine Muses, etc. Other paths [BNF Fr. 565] also lead to Paris. It has more to do with place, than with a known person.
Earlier, there was Hildegard of Bingen. So, the possibility of female writers is valid. They could be nuns; certain groups did still flourish in the C-14 era. However, I see the point as moot. It is irrelevant to interpreting the VMs language. And the evidence is apparently insufficient to make a clear determination. -
RE: Part of Zodiac was added later?
februs > 25-02-2022, 08:25 PM
(25-02-2022, 07:33 PM)R. Sale Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Christine de Pizan was a historical person. You can look her up in the reference sources.
Firstly, she was female. Second, she was an author and she wrote her original manuscripts, and therefor is a scribe. Thirdly, she was synchronous with the early range of VMs C-14 dates. She worked in Paris and was patronized by Valois royalty. So, there are some visual indicators of historical similarities, but only on an artistic basis; cloud-bands, rainbows, nine Muses, etc. Other paths [BNF Fr. 565] also lead to Paris. It has more to do with place, than with a known person.
Earlier, there was Hildegard of Bingen. So, the possibility of female writers is valid. They could be nuns; certain groups did still flourish in the C-14 era. However, I see the point as moot. It is irrelevant to interpreting the VMs language. And the evidence is apparently insufficient to make a clear determination.
thank you for reply(∩´∀｀)∩
she is the one candidate of writing VM, isn't she? -
RE: Part of Zodiac was added later?
Koen G > 25-02-2022, 08:49 PM
I think something was lost in translation here. You probably meant to ask if five individuals wrote the VM, but it sounds like you are only talking about men (so males and not women). That is why R. Sale said that Christine de Pizan is an example of a woman who wrote manuscripts, but she has no direct connection to the VM, don't worry about it
Yes, five different people wrote the VM text. Lisa determined this by comparing their handwriting, just like paleographers compare the handwriting in normal manuscripts. You can see in the table at the end of her paper which scribe wrote which page. And this image shows the glyphs she compared: