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Why is the Rosettes page much larger than any other page?
- Why is the Rosettes page much larger than any other page?
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Why is the Rosettes page much larger than any other page?
Mark Knowles > 03-02-2022, 03:07 PM
The Rosettes page takes up 6 sides of the manuscript. There are other foldouts in the manuscript, but each side of those is like a separate page, so the Rosettes features by far and away the largest single image. A page this size is more costly than 6 individual sheets, because it requires a larger piece of vellum.
One could ask why the author(s) needed such a large sheet for the rosettes drawing, could the drawing fit on a smaller sheet without loss of detail? Was the topic particularly important that it merited a large sheet? Presumably the large sheet was purchased specifically for the purpose of the Rosettes drawing. -
RE: Why is the Rosettes page much larger than any other page?
CaryR > 03-02-2022, 05:54 PM
The makers of the VM clearly went to some considerable effort to make such a large foldout for this imagery, and to make sure that it was also square.
It's clear even at a glance that the imagery on the Rosettes foldout could not fit on a smaller sheet without loss of detail- it's a large image overall, but it's made up of many very small elements. So I don't think these details could easily be drawn any smaller than they already are.
If details matter in the VM--which I think they do--I think the subject matter must have been extremely important to the makers. -
RE: Why is the Rosettes page much larger than any other page?
bi3mw > 03-02-2022, 06:45 PM
(03-02-2022, 05:54 PM)CaryR Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.If details matter in the VM--which I think they do--I think the subject matter must have been extremely important to the makers.
Yes, this generally speaks for the fact that not some fantasy - illustration was made, but the desired statement could be realized only in this scaling. A pure fantasy - product could certainly have been represented in any smaller resolution. Details would then not be of importance.
Last but not least, one must also see the costs that this large foldout has caused. -
RE: Why is the Rosettes page much larger than any other page?
Koen G > 03-02-2022, 07:03 PM
I agree, the size of this foldout suggests that the details are important, which in turn implies that the images are meaningful.
To answer the original question, I think it helps to consider the two alternatives:
1. Draw the entire diagram on a regular folio. In this case, details will be lost.
2. Split the diagram, with one rosette per page for example. This would pull apart the diagram itself, and the overview will be lost.
The conclusion is that both the overall diagram and the details within are important. As Cary and I have recently argued, the specific type of foldout that was chosen may also mean that a square shape was desired. -
RE: Why is the Rosettes page much larger than any other page?
Mark Knowles > 03-02-2022, 09:11 PM
(03-02-2022, 07:03 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I agree, the size of this foldout suggests that the details are important, which in turn implies that the images are meaningful.
That is my opinion also. I raised the question as I was curious what the opinions of others were. -
RE: Why is the Rosettes page much larger than any other page?
R. Sale > 03-02-2022, 09:55 PM
Well, it clearly is a 3 x 3 square, and not another possible structure, so the artist's choice has been made. And if size does translate to importance and significance, then this is an overhead view of walls, the 12 foundations based on the clouds siting on light thrusters. I think we're tending off into the 'visionary' illustration area. And I think we should be doing so because that seems to be the intent of the VMs artist.
It has been recently said, and not for the first time, that there is the impression that there are certain 'religious' elements to be found in the VMs, if we know what the illustrations represent. The Rosette page as depiction of Heavenly Jerusalem would be another indicator of religious references apparently represented in the VMs illustrations.
"Apparently" is the matter under discussion. Apparently, a religious person would more likely be familiar with the information carefully presented in the illustrations. An artist able to envision this New Jerusalem, would know the origins of the cardinal's red galero, the myth of Melusine, the significance of a double rainbow and so on.
If the representations of the Golden Fleece carry full weight, then there is a definite chronological marker. And if the nymphs with the cross and the ring carry full weight then a more religious interpretation may be needed.
The Rosettes are important. What do they reveal? Are they attractions or distractions? Already they have served as a subtle provider (hidden location) for an unusual cloud-band with cosmic connections. And actually there is a pairing of cloud-bands in the central and center right rosettes. The affirmative significance of pairing should not be forgotten. Likewise, the pair of patterned markers in the central rosette's ring of text might be a technique to discretely designate specific segments of text, as was done on White Aries. -
RE: Why is the Rosettes page much larger than any other page?
davidjackson > 05-02-2022, 05:30 PM
It didn't fit on a smaller page.
Next question?
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RE: Why is the Rosettes page much larger than any other page?
Aga Tentakulus > 05-02-2022, 06:12 PM
@David
It is possible.
But for the answers it takes more than 20 of this kind. -
RE: Why is the Rosettes page much larger than any other page?
Linda > 05-02-2022, 09:31 PM
I think it was a standalone document at one time, that was folded differently than is found in the current binding. That doesn't necessarily mean the information couldn't have gone into separate folios, but the fact that it didn't could also be telling, since whatever is shown here is likely to all fall under a single heading.
My own take is a mnemonic map, from which an actual map similar to a portolan chart can be drawn. The back of the map also appears to include information about the natural world, seems to me it is focused on minerals and water. Interpreted this way, it can be seen how it would work with the plant sections, both in terms of where the plants might be found, and in the knowledge needed for their propagation. -
RE: Why is the Rosettes page much larger than any other page?
Aga Tentakulus > 05-02-2022, 11:07 PM
If I have birdseed, then I also have mice.