Anton > 04-10-2020, 05:30 PM
(04-10-2020, 05:15 PM)Mark Knowles Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Are you saying that you think there are no nouns in the Voynich?
(04-10-2020, 05:15 PM)Mark Knowles Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Are you saying that you think there are no names in the Voynich?
Mark Knowles > 04-10-2020, 06:44 PM
(04-10-2020, 05:30 PM)Anton Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Not exactly, but rather there may be none of those where we most expect to find them. For example, there may be no plant names in the Herbal folios, no Zodiac sign names in the cosmo diagrams, etc.
Anton > 04-10-2020, 07:45 PM
(04-10-2020, 06:44 PM)Mark Knowles Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Are you implying a referencing/lookup/index system? This seems to be one approach to viewing labels as numbers used as references. Or are you saying the text on a page does not necessarily correspond to that page, but rather a different page in the manuscript? Such that the text and drawings are jumbled up.
Mark Knowles > 04-10-2020, 08:01 PM
(04-10-2020, 07:45 PM)Anton Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.No, none of those has to be implied. Just, when you describe a certain plant, you don't name it. Suppose 2v is water lily, and the text is about water lily, but there is no word "water lily" in the folio.
Same for stars. Suppose 68r1 is the star map, but there are no star names (the reader has to know them without labeling). Instead, the labels contain information about (let's say, just for the sake of a possible example) what good or evil spirits are associated with respective stars.
Anton > 04-10-2020, 08:46 PM
(04-10-2020, 08:01 PM)Mark Knowles Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Isn't it very unusual not to name things in manuscripts of that period?
(04-10-2020, 08:01 PM)Mark Knowles Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Without a name doesn't it make it rather difficult to know which plant/star etc. is being referred to?
Quote:When you say good and evil spirits it seems to me that you are swapping one name for another
Mark Knowles > 04-10-2020, 10:14 PM
(04-10-2020, 08:46 PM)Anton Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Not swapping, but building an association of one to another. Developing this further, imagine that the point is that an f68r1/r2 label ceases (or, rather, might cease) to be a simple notion (be that noun or adjective, does not matter), and appears rather an "operator + notion" construct, like e.g. otol = o over tol. For example otol might be "with tol" or "related to tol", while qotol might be "without tol". There's a thread in the forum where I develop this in more detail, can't remember its name offhand. This would explain the high proportion of o-starting labels.
Anton > 04-10-2020, 10:24 PM
(04-10-2020, 10:14 PM)Mark Knowles Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.So in that instance if a label and an operator is an evil spirit
(04-10-2020, 10:14 PM)Mark Knowles Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Then if otor means o+tor then one needs, I think, to explain the degree of similarity in spelling of tol, kol, tor and how they can have distinct meanings with such similar spellings.
Mark Knowles > 04-10-2020, 10:58 PM
(04-10-2020, 10:24 PM)Anton Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Yes, that's the important question, and my best guess so far has been a nomenclator solution.
-JKP- > 05-10-2020, 02:58 AM
(04-10-2020, 10:24 PM)Anton Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view....
Suppose, the evil spirit is "vodka". And the operator is "o". The label would be "ovodka". If the operator means "related to", the label reads "related to vodka". It is to be understood that the object thus labeled, be that star, naked woman or a pipe (which btw I suppose to be blood vessels and various guts), is related to vodka. And it's absolutely of no surprise that a group of different and even inhomogenous objects may be related to the same object.
(04-10-2020, 10:14 PM)Mark Knowles Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Then if otor means o+tor then one needs, I think, to explain the degree of similarity in spelling of tol, kol, tor and how they can have distinct meanings with such similar spellings.
Yes, that's the important question, and my best guess so far has been a nomenclator solution.
Anton > 05-10-2020, 11:14 AM