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Hypervector Analysis of the Voynich Manuscript

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• Hypervector Analysis of the Voynich Manuscript

• RE: Hypervector Analysis of the Voynich Manuscript

  Aga Tentakulus > 12-08-2020, 08:08 AM

  You are probably right, the VM text does not have to be German.
  But before I search in Japan, I have to observe the clues at the front door.
  If someone believes the "cha, cho,..." syllables are probably from Thailand, he could be mistaken.
  Because this is Alemannic.
  chumsch au cho go chäschüechli chaufä.

• RE: Hypervector Analysis of the Voynich Manuscript

  Helmut Winkler > 12-08-2020, 10:22 AM

  Aga,
  
  These guys dont  understand Schwyzer dütsch.
  
  But your are right,  of course

• RE: Hypervector Analysis of the Voynich Manuscript

  ReneZ > 12-08-2020, 12:39 PM

  (12-08-2020, 06:10 AM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.EVA-Sh and EVA-sh are not the same thing.
  
  
  (deleted)

  
  I am sorry, but this is getting absurd, and distracts from the interesting topic of this mail. I will not continue this.

• RE: Hypervector Analysis of the Voynich Manuscript

  -JKP- > 12-08-2020, 12:44 PM

  Rene, will you please start a new thread and explain why you think a piece of one glyph (the left part of EVA-S S) and a completely different glyph (EVA-s s) are the same when they have different statistical profiles? I cannot fathom what you are talking about.
  
  Thanks.

• RE: Hypervector Analysis of the Voynich Manuscript

  dvallis > 12-08-2020, 01:46 PM

  (12-08-2020, 06:12 AM)MarcoP Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Edit: Adyghe seems to contradict this idea. Do you think you could also share your original files?

  
  All the source data files are at:
  
  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

• RE: Hypervector Analysis of the Voynich Manuscript

  dvallis > 12-08-2020, 01:56 PM

  (12-08-2020, 06:01 AM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Very interesting, again, Darrin.  Okay... is there a chance you could do Scenario 3 ....
  
  Another thought... should you include a sample of random text (one with spaces) to see where it falls on the graph?

  
  Will do Scenario 3 and random text with spaces next.
  
  Shannon entropy for random gibberish is high so I expect it to be uncorrelated with any language. We'll see.

• RE: Hypervector Analysis of the Voynich Manuscript

  MarcoP > 12-08-2020, 02:28 PM

  (12-08-2020, 01:46 PM)dvallis Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

  (12-08-2020, 06:12 AM)MarcoP Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Edit: Adyghe seems to contradict this idea. Do you think you could also share your original files?

  
  All the source data files are at:
  
  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

  
  Hi Darrin,
  I have seen those files, thank you. I was asking for the original files, before your pre-processing, if it's not a problem.
  In particular, I am not sure about Agul, which is missing from the pre-processed "data/" directory. There is a similarly named Algul.txt, but it looks strange (low entropy):
  

  Quote:uoendo duee iudea duendyaeu degiii eeeo oeaee uaeaoeiao ieeeiaa ssai ooaoaooao aiouodaa aoyaissao ue ieoay ossoda iieooo
  uo iooaoeoyao oao aee iooaoe ieo oaaaoce aaxe psiiaaessced aeax xaice edoada oeieo aee iooao ueooed oiaoeice ie uae ieie

  
  But I am interested in looking into the other original files as well.

• RE: Hypervector Analysis of the Voynich Manuscript

  nablator > 12-08-2020, 03:55 PM

  Hi Darrin,
  

  (12-08-2020, 01:46 PM)dvallis Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.All the source data files are at:
  
  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

  
  Your pre-processing drops some important accentuated characters (like "é") in the French file. Also it would be better to use a space to replace "'" and "-" than remove them, because they are separating words. Recent French news are much less interesting than Middle French texts for a comparison to a transliteration of Voynichese or a transformation thereof (which transformation works best is the question that matters). There is the same anachronism problem for other languages as well. Julius Caesar's Latin is not late medieval Latin, not only because the vocabulary is different, but because there are some systematic uses that impact letter n-gram statistics ("ae" and "oe" were simplified to "e", "ti" was often indistinguishable from "ci", "ihi" was often writen "ichi", etc.). Also there are huge differences in statistics between different texts/authors even when they use the same language, so a cloud of points (one point per sample text) would be far better than a single point on the graph.

• RE: Hypervector Analysis of the Voynich Manuscript

  MarcoP > 12-08-2020, 04:45 PM

  Hi Nablator,
  while what you write is certainly true, like Peter's observations about German dialects, the system looks rather robust respect the changes that one can see in a single language. This analysis is based on trigrams and medieval Latin is not much different from classical Latin ('ae' became 'e' etc, but nothing like the difference between, say Latin and Italian).
  
  What concerns me here is that EVA and CUVA are treated like transcriptions, not transliterations. If I understand correctly, Ossetic and Adyghe result similar to EVA and CUVA because 'yda' and a few other trigrams are frequent in these four files and rare elsewhere. But we have no idea of the sounds corresponding to y, d and a, even if Voynichese is phonetic (as I believe, but who knows really?). yda could read 'yda', 'ero', 'uge'... but also 'clo', 'tra'..., it could stand for a single sound or not be phonetic after all. In comparison to this huge search-space, differences between dialects and time-variants seem to me negligible.
  It's somehow like considering Adyghe similar to Voynichese because words like 'pched' 'shchy' 'kesy' occur both in Adyghe and in the Voynich EVA transliteration.
  
  When You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. suggested some kind of sorting of the trigrams, I guess he was addressing this problem. But I cannot think of an obvious solution.

• RE: Hypervector Analysis of the Voynich Manuscript

  Alin_J > 12-08-2020, 05:21 PM

  (12-08-2020, 04:45 PM)MarcoP Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.What concerns me here is that EVA and CUVA are treated like transcriptions, not transliterations. If I understand correctly, Ossetic and Adyghe result similar to EVA and CUVA because 'yda' and a few other trigrams are frequent in these four files and rare elsewhere. But we have no idea of the sounds corresponding to y, d and a, even if Voynichese is phonetic (as I believe, but who knows really?). yda could read 'yda', 'ero', 'uge'... but also 'clo', 'tra'..., it could stand for a single sound or not be phonetic after all. In comparison to this huge search-space, differences between dialects and time-variants seem to me negligible.
  It's somehow like considering Adyaghe similar to Voynichese because words like 'pched' 'shchy' 'kesy' occur both in Adyghe and in the Voynich EVA transliteration.
  
  When You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. suggested some kind of sorting of the trigrams, I guess he was addressing this problem. But I cannot think of an obvious solution.

  
  Yes, this was exactly my point. Thank you Marco for bringing this up.
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