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RE: f67v2: the lunar - solar tides
Searcher > 15-05-2020, 12:03 AM
As I see, the peak of interest to the phenomenon of tides among scholars was in 12-13th cc., and then decreased until the 16-17th cc.
I looked through the versions of the tidal diagram (in the manuscripts available for on-line reading). Well, they are all similar, and depict only the monthly lunar cycle with four tides. It isn't strange, as they are all copies of Bede's tidal diagram with only that difference that some of them are simple copies, another - combined with some another Bede's "rota" (wind rose, the wheel of hours).
I'm not sure that I will find diagrams with the annual cycle of tides, i. e., soli-lunar diagram, but I'm surprised that I don't find any diagram with the diurnal cycle. Astronomers, naturalists, seamen observed daily tides and ebbs. It is strange that they weren't interested to draw a daily tidal diagram, but it is not excluded that those observations could be noted in tables.
Returning to the f67v2, I want to rethink its depiction. Probably, it is not exactly about tides, but about any influences of the Sun and the Moon, their light and heat on fluids in nature, including the tides. Maybe, it is better to call it meteorological or hydrological?
I pointed earlier that the diagram contains small depictions that remind: 1) tides (the two top pipes with the Sun and the Moon); 2) mist (the left bottom pipe with the Moon); 3) cloud (the right bottom pipe with the Sun). All this reminds the circulation of the water in nature, there is no rain, though.
Most likely, this is even harder to find a precedent for such a diagram, but we still can try to value it visually. The two top pipes may mean tides caused by the Sun and by the Moon, but the bottom pipes show the mist (vapour) from the Moon and the cloud - from the Sun. It may reflect that thought that the moonlight, its rays rise vapours from the depth of the sea, meanwhile the sun heat or light works in the highest layers of the air, causing clouds.
If this is a meteorological-tidal diagram, it is not designated for tracking the tides during the Lunar month, as in usual tidal diagrams, but rather may show a general concept, let's say, how the things work.
The problem is still the same - corner mini-diagrams.
As for the Elements, I finally found the paper denoted to the work of Robert Grosseteste with the Latin text and its translation in English. This is the paper You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.by Amelia Carolina Sparavigna. I think it nicely clarifies how the conception of the Elements could be involved into explanation of astronomical or meteorological events. Those explanations of medieval scholars was rather philosophical, metaphisical, as they didn't have another. But, of course, it doesn't mean that the elements of the practical astrology could be used in the questions of astronomical phenomenons.
If I would consider a possibility of placement of the Elements in the diagram of f67v2, I would suppose the three of them (earth, water, air) are in the center, which projection is the T/O map (three sections) in the left bottom corner; and the fourth is the light (fire) of the Sun and the Moon. -
RE: f67v2: the lunar - solar tides
Koen G > 23-07-2024, 12:05 PM
There are some vaguely similar forms around this diagram in the MS Rene just posted in the other thread Bologna, Biblioteca Universitaria di Bologna, ms. 3632, f269r
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I can't read the Greek labels though, and the match is far from complete. Either way it's a strange collection of shapes.
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RE: f67v2: the lunar - solar tides
Koen G > 23-07-2024, 12:14 PM
Also f307v, both have 8 points and starred panels.