Linda > 11-07-2019, 12:14 PM
(11-07-2019, 01:41 AM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Wow, I'm already concerned after reading the second sentence...
"Based upon our findings, the language of the Voynich Manuscript is a Vulgar Latin dialect, likely affected by a contemporary Italian dialect."
If the VMS was created c. early 15th century, how could the text be affected by a contemporary Italian dialect? They were still speaking medieval Italian. Even 17th-century Italian is different from modern Italian, and 15th-century Italian is quite a bit different.
-JKP- > 11-07-2019, 05:32 PM
(11-07-2019, 11:48 AM)nablator Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(11-07-2019, 03:50 AM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Deure is not Latin.Yes it is.
2nd person singular present active imperative of deuro: to burn up, consume, destroy
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
davidjackson > 11-07-2019, 07:13 PM
Anton > 11-07-2019, 10:34 PM
Gioynich > 12-07-2019, 01:59 AM
Tim King > 12-07-2019, 04:00 AM
(11-07-2019, 12:14 PM)Linda Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(11-07-2019, 01:41 AM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Wow, I'm already concerned after reading the second sentence...
"Based upon our findings, the language of the Voynich Manuscript is a Vulgar Latin dialect, likely affected by a contemporary Italian dialect."
If the VMS was created c. early 15th century, how could the text be affected by a contemporary Italian dialect? They were still speaking medieval Italian. Even 17th-century Italian is different from modern Italian, and 15th-century Italian is quite a bit different.
I read that as Italian contemporary to the vms, not modern Italian.
Tim King > 12-07-2019, 04:18 AM
(11-07-2019, 05:32 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(11-07-2019, 11:48 AM)nablator Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(11-07-2019, 03:50 AM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Deure is not Latin.Yes it is.
2nd person singular present active imperative of deuro: to burn up, consume, destroy
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
I made an effort to try to find it in medieval Latin transliterations before posting. I've learned that just because a word theoretically exists as a tense or declension doesn't mean it was used.
I stand corrected if someone can find a medieval use of it.
The Catalan deure arose sometime in the mid- to late-medieval period, but not from Latin deure, it is said to be via Old Occitan via Latin debeo (via vulgar debere at an earlier time). It is very common for medieval Catalan words to have dropped consonants (I imagine it may have been a very round and sonorous language).
-JKP- > 12-07-2019, 04:32 AM
(12-07-2019, 04:18 AM)Tim King Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(11-07-2019, 05:32 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(11-07-2019, 11:48 AM)nablator Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(11-07-2019, 03:50 AM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Deure is not Latin.
Yes it is.
2nd person singular present active imperative of deuro: to burn up, consume, destroy
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
I made an effort to try to find it in medieval Latin transliterations before posting. I've learned that just because a word theoretically exists as a tense or declension doesn't mean it was used.
I stand corrected if someone can find a medieval use of it.
The Catalan deure arose sometime in the mid- to late-medieval period, but not from Latin deure, it is said to be via Old Occitan via Latin debeo (via vulgar debere at an earlier time). It is very common for medieval Catalan words to have dropped consonants (I imagine it may have been a very round and sonorous language).
Deure: present imperative second person singular (the only surviving conjugations of the imperative in Vulgar Latin is second person singular and plural) of deuro: to burn up, consume, wither. Note how they are using terms that denote heat....
Quote:Google translate does not count as a source for Latin.
-JKP- > 12-07-2019, 05:53 AM
Quote:From the authors' talk (posted by Gioynich)
...
- Stephen Bax started coming up with the sounds. Here are the sounds we propose based on his.
Quote:- Plants are usually represented as flowering, as they are easier to recognize, but belladonna (1v) is represented at the end of its life cycle, it's yellowing, that's because it's when its extract(?) is more powerful
Quote:- EVA:y has a sound (n) but it's also used as punctuation (virgula suspensiva)
Quote:- Proposed translation of 1v. EVA:daiin is translated as hardship. the page talks about expelling the hardships (e.g. kidney stones?)
Quote:- Paper was expensive, so people would use shorthands. Tironian system took years to learn
- Some Tironian symbols (just the consonants) were adapted (e.g. rotated, added serifs)
Quote:- EVA:y is seen as abbreviation in many other manuscripts. It's used as a "marker", maybe since it sounds like 'n' it's use as punctuation derives from what we called hesitant(?) in linguistic, like when we say "hmm" when thinking...
Quote:- Stephen Bax was the first to assign sounds
Quote:- We are the first ones to show how the characters evolved and were combined. Our work is an extension of his work
Quote:- Shows a picture of a castle from the VM. Shows that there are 'merli ghibellini'. We looked at a lot of photos of castles from the area we think the manuscript is from (Veneto) to identify the ones that match
Quote:- There are just two castles with merli ghibellini, on a hill, with walls: Castello Scaligero di Soave and Castello di Marostica
Quote:- There are a lot of hotsprings in the Verona/Vicenza area. Alessandra has been translating a full manuscript talking about the Terme di Giunone. The book says that their water are good for pregnant women, etc.
Quote:He was right and he was first...
MarcoP > 12-07-2019, 07:26 AM