Mark Knowles > 17-05-2019, 11:33 AM
Mark Knowles > 17-05-2019, 11:36 AM
(17-05-2019, 12:28 AM)DONJCH Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I don't have a big problem with understanding this.
You can take images of a bunch of q's and a bunch of 4's and line them up in order from more q - like to more 4 - like.
These images could come from a variety of sources or even be mathematically drawn.
You could mark the point where q's end and 4's begin.
For any given source you could count how many are more q like and how many are more 4 like.
Mark seems to think most are more 4 - like in the VMS.
My guess would be that intermediate forms would dominate.
Also, that cutoff point will be arbitrary.
I imagine that theoretically a mathematical function could be designed to draw the shapes, by adjusting a coefficient of "pointy" and/or a coefficient of "round".
In that sense, the shapes would be independent of a manuscript.
Meaningful results though would only come from comparison of shapes from actual manuscripts to the mathematical ones.
Mark Knowles > 17-05-2019, 11:44 AM
Koen G > 17-05-2019, 11:44 AM
Mark Knowles > 17-05-2019, 11:55 AM
(17-05-2019, 02:50 AM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.So it's like... we take the number 4 but forget about its meaning and origin until it becomes a meaningless form and then see whether it looks like the VM shape?
Mark Knowles > 17-05-2019, 12:00 PM
Mark Knowles > 17-05-2019, 12:06 PM
(17-05-2019, 07:09 AM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Hello Don,
what you write is not wrong. However, the thread title doesn't say:
"The top left hand (etc) is a triangle".
Furthermore, Mark says that the purpose of all this is to be able to find the origin of these shapes. At the same time, we are not allowed to look in documents contemporary to the Voynich MS to find examples and counter-examples.
So, just looking at the Voynich MS, in most t and p characters, the leftmost tip is mostly rounded.
In the q characters, it tends to be a bit more pointed, but is also often rounded.
In principle, I suppose one could measure and compute stats of the slopes of the oblique lines, but I think that should be left to someone who thinks that there is a useful outcome of such a non-trivial exercise.
(Implication: it won't be me).
Koen G > 17-05-2019, 12:11 PM
Mark Knowles > 17-05-2019, 12:27 PM
(17-05-2019, 12:11 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.So why didn't you just ask whether we think EVA-q the top left loop of the gallows character looks more like "4" than "q"?
To that question - taking the shapes as I type them as reference - I would say that yes, it does look more like "4" because it is bent rather than round. There is not an equal slope to the curve. But the tips do display a great variety of roundedness. On a typical page I find both sharp points close to "4" and rounded points.
Koen G > 17-05-2019, 12:31 PM