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• Voynich decoded completely

• RE: Voynich decoded completely

  -JKP- > 06-07-2018, 12:43 PM

  One thing I've noticed is that all the different people who claim Latin solutions generate "Latin" text that has very little in common with the others.
  
  
  I have to admit, I don't have an opinion on the M. Hoffmann "solution" yet. Until I can work through and understand ALL the steps on my own and see where it works (or doesn't), it remains on my mental shelf as "not sure what I think about it yet". Maybe I'll have time to work out that "missing link" on the weekend.

• RE: Voynich decoded completely

  davidjackson > 06-07-2018, 01:17 PM

  @Dr. Michael Hoffmann, instead of referring to pages please refer to folios, including recto / verso. Otherwise there will be confusion as to which folio you are referencing.

• RE: Voynich decoded completely

  davidjackson > 06-07-2018, 11:03 PM

  The problem with this theory (and so many others) is, as I pointed out before (and many others apart from me), the great scope for anagramming, or the free insertion of characters. You can basically expand the "translation" into any textual scope you fancy.
  A simple example of how cultural artefacts are being inserted into Dr Michael Hoffman's translation is in his first translation on page 4 of this thread where he writes ", set the table, voila!".
  Nobody in the 15th century would write "set the table" or give an exclamation like "voila!" to mean "task completed". This is purely a Renaissance onwards European cultural artefact. It's so common for us to say "set the table and put the food out, that's it" that we don't argue the possibility that our ancestors did the same.
  In short, taking the transcription that Dr M.H. proposes, we could expand the text in a different way and get a different "translation". It depends upon what we want to extract from the text.
  All this proves is that, even if the method is correct, the original meaning is lost to us.
  
  On a different tangent, I would point out that arguing that you need a modern science degree to understand this translation effort would indicate that you believe the VM to be a modern hoax - if you need a modern science degree to decode it, surely you need a modern degree to create the encoding process?

• RE: Voynich decoded completely

  Dr. Michael Hoffmann > 10-07-2018, 10:07 AM

  I have to announce an update to the decipher chart (see attachment). The symbol which means -re and -er can also mean -en.
  
  I am currently translating page 139 of the digital copy. There, I was wondering about one phrase which came up and reads in latin "ali in re". because two "i" can mean "u", I read "alum re".
  
  Since on that page is a protocol how to stain fabrics, it must read "alumen", which is alum and is required for staining/pickling, as in line 5:
  
  
  ad alumen ad ea uni in re una o ...
  
  "Come with alum, there combine in the meantime together ..."
  
  I can provide ex ante line 1, which describes the preparations. remind a single "o" is the new step in the protocol, and "d" is an abbreviation for (one) day.:
  
  te ea ne texta o ad ala o ea ire ad a te ea in ena d a te ea in re M re o ea i da ori M re o a ore
  
  - you there, finish the fabrics
  - come closer with the dyer stick (ala=paddle=dyer stick in this context)
  - to that you come, you go one day during with fort flotage, you there during thorough 
  - there one give, begin precisely with the work
  - preheating
  
  From here, I now have to deal with the quantities, which would take a while since I got no idea about fabrics or clothes of that time.
  
  As a note to those who can not communicate properly: A thing did not become wrong only because you say so. You have to prove it wrong. I do know that my decipher chart, which by the way was finished after 1 or 2 hours already, might not be a 100% correct. However, if it is only 90% right, or just 50%, it is already a breakthrough. I would be glad if you could deal with it in this way. If you miss any letter in the chart, add it and join translating the manuscript, please.

• RE: Voynich decoded completely

  -JKP- > 10-07-2018, 10:36 AM

  (10-07-2018, 10:07 AM)Dr. Michael Hoffmann Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view....
  
  
  Since on that page is a protocol how to stain fabrics, it must read "alumen", which is alum and is required for staining/pickling, as in line 5:

  
  Oh, I see. YOU are deciding the subject matter, and then turning the words into words that match the subject matter by changing whatever is convenient to you.
  
  That's not science.
  
  
  
  

  Quote:ad alumen ad ea uni in re una o ...
  
  "Come with alum, there combine in the meantime together ..."

  
  This is not Latin (except for "ad"). Why do you think it is? These are syllable fragments that could be any Romance language if you add missing parts.

• RE: Voynich decoded completely

  nablator > 10-07-2018, 11:03 AM

• RE: Voynich decoded completely

  Anton > 10-07-2018, 12:23 PM

  I'd like to advise participants of this discussion that flaming should be avoided. In case of doubt, please refer to You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..
  
  

  Quote:A thing did not become wrong only because you say so. You have to prove it wrong.

  
  Michael, I guess you are wrong with this. As the common principle goes, "negativa non probantur". If one brings forward a statement, it is him who should prove it true, not the others who should prove it wrong. If I claim that I'm the emperor of China, it's for me to prove that, not for you to disprove.

• RE: Voynich decoded completely

  Searcher > 10-07-2018, 12:27 PM

  So, am I right? Read this You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..

• RE: Voynich decoded completely

  -JKP- > 10-07-2018, 12:30 PM

  He's doing more than shifting things, and adding things in. He's also changing "n" to "m" for example, if the result of the previous shifting and changing isn't enough to wrestle it into a word.
  
  -----------------------------------------
  But in trying to discern the method...
  
  His transliteration is
       te ea ne texta
  
  Which he translated as
       you there, finish the fabrics
  
  The word "texta" is not fabrics in Latin. "Textura" is [woven] fabrics, so the "ur" has to be assumed, but texta could be expanded into other things besides fabrics, and even the word "textura" has other connotations besides fabric, such as "framework" or underlying structure. Assuming it means fabrics is a subjective leap.
  
  The word "te" does mean "you" but one would not write "te ea ne" in Latin or anything close to it. It's like he's taking the first word and the last and making up everything in between, but what is in between is mostly meaningless (it's ungrammatical fragments) and is not enough to substantiate his interpretation of "texta" as fabrics. One might wrestle it into "you, it's not fabrics" but it's not how it would be said in Latin–and is still very ungrammatical.
  

• RE: Voynich decoded completely

  -JKP- > 11-07-2018, 01:59 AM

  Quote:M. Hoffman:
  
  ad ala
  
  - come closer with the dyer stick (ala=paddle=dyer stick in this context)

  
  
  You keep saying this is Latin, but "ala" does not mean "paddle" (or anything close to it) in Latin. Ad ala could maybe be interpreted as toward the wing, or toward the shoulder (or approaching the shoulder), but "with the paddle/dyer stick"? No way. The "with" is certainly not appropriate and "paddle"? No.
  
  Once again, you subjectively assumed the context and then translated based on your opinion of what the word "should" mean and added in words that are not even suggested by the transliteration.
  
  This is not science.
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