- Options
- Login
- Desktop Style
Options
[split] Color annotations?
- [split] Color annotations?
-
RE: [split] Color annotations?
ReneZ > 13-08-2019, 06:34 AM
When painted over, these notes tend to remain visible.
Rightmost picture: Vicenza MS 362 which was addressed already a couple of times here.
-
RE: [split] Color annotations?
Koen G > 13-08-2019, 09:25 AM
(13-08-2019, 05:41 AM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I guess it depends partly on whether the person making the annotations and the person painting were different people (which was usually the case in medieval studios, but this is the VMS). Assuming they were different people, it seems very likely that a small initial almost nearly hidden in a root could be missed.
True. But even if it was the same person, the fact that he made the notes suggests some time between the note and the painting. If he made hundreds of these notes, he's still likely to miss a few.
CM: yes, but the "r" suggests red. We know that red in the VM does not look yellow.
Rene: how often do people say they see faint letters under the paint in the VM? And why are colour annotations so rare? We've got a handful for a few thousand painted surfaces. What if they were scrapped for light paint and painted over for thick paint? -
RE: [split] Color annotations?
ReneZ > 13-08-2019, 10:12 AM
The fact that there are only so few is strange.
That they would be scraped before painting seems like more 'care' than the painter has applied in general, but this remains speculation.
In the Vicenza MS (and a few other known cases) they clearly weren't scraped.
I do occasionally see reports that people see things hidden under the paint, but most of the times these are not like normal characters in the normal size. -
RE: [split] Color annotations?
MarcoP > 13-08-2019, 11:16 AM
About the fact that there are not many colour annotations, I am not sure that this is exceptional. For instance, in my You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., I only found 9 colour annotations in 142 pages: I may have missed some, and others may be hidden under paint, but it seems that most of the illustrations were not colour-annotated. Four of these nine annotations require that leaves are painted yellow: this is clearly non-obvious and worth annotating. But at least in one case the instructions say that leaves should be painted green ("verde la foglia", at the top of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.): the relevance of this is much less clear.
Also, I think that the only colour annotation found in Trinity O.2.48 was the one pointed out by Koen You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..
If Rene's list at the bottom of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. is complete, one can note that there are 13 colour annotations in 10 different pages. All of the 10 pages belong to Language A. If Language A and Language B correspond to different phases in the production of the manuscript, a possibility is that at the beginning of the project plants were colour-annotated (when needed), but this practice was dropped with time (this assuming that A was created before B). -
RE: [split] Color annotations?
VViews > 13-08-2019, 12:17 PM
(13-08-2019, 04:50 AM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Next question: is it possible that some of the rare colour annotations in the VM are ones that were for some reason missed by the painter and hence remained visible?
I agree with MarcoP on this not being rare. -
RE: [split] Color annotations?
Monica Yokubinas > 13-08-2019, 12:35 PM
They are not for color, but hidden magical words:
[font=ff2,]the formula found on the plant trunk on page 4r.BAI (What I see in my hand is my own) the same word play was used in the Old Testament and[/font]
[font=ff1,]untranslated. Reference in Strong’s Concordance for Hebrew #1164.[/font]
[font=ff2,] Hebrew letter Beth (to enter) Ayin(to see) Yod (hand of God). The word is used multiple times in the Voynich Manuscript in the 9 rosette folio and other pages.Intermingling formula also with the alchemical symbols used and words left of the symbols on 66r alchemical page with measurements and prescriptions. Proof, from the same BAI Voynich symbols are used for 3 separate words like in the Hebrew previously mentioned: (Greedy in) (therefore) (royal treasury).There are multiple hidden gems in the Voynich in plain sight. Other pages with plant codes, besides 4r,are 2r inside the green leaf that look like numbers, alchemical symbol and Voynich letters outside plant [/font]word translates to ‘Valley of Vision’
[font=ff2,] 20r with an alchemical symbol for reduction, 28v with a number and alchemical symbol for purification, and 29r with the Hebrew word for hand.[/font] -
RE: [split] Color annotations?
Koen G > 13-08-2019, 01:02 PM
Yes, but in other herbals the remaining color annotations often match with the color. In the case posted by Rene above, you can also understand why they did it, because of the relatively difficult alternating pattern.
But when I go over the color annotations listed at Rene's site (often "r", "rot", or "possibly r"), I notice that most of these letters are found in blank parts and not near any red paint. Is it really such a crazy suggestion that the red paint was forgotten here? As Rene says, the VM painter wasn't exactly the most precise worker.
It is likely not a coincidence that this occurred precisely with red. As Sam G once noted, this is probably the only color that is used often in Currier A (37 pages), but rarely in B (1 page).
Considering this discrepancy together with the fact that several "red" color annotations are found in blank spaces suggests to me that red painting may have been halted at some point. -
RE: [split] Color annotations?
ReneZ > 13-08-2019, 01:53 PM
There are large parts in the MS that have hardly been painted, so it very much looks like an unfinished job.
The herbal part seems to have received the most attention when it comes to painting, but there are a few cases where only some green was applied. -
RE: [split] Color annotations?
Monica Yokubinas > 13-08-2019, 02:23 PM
(13-08-2019, 01:02 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Yes, but in other herbals the remaining color annotations often match with the color. In the case posted by Rene above, you can also understand why they did it, because of the relatively difficult alternating pattern.
But when I go over the color annotations listed at Rene's site (often "r", "rot", or "possibly r"), I notice that most of these letters are found in blank parts and not near any red paint. Is it really such a crazy suggestion that the red paint was forgotten here? As Rene says, the VM painter wasn't exactly the most precise worker.
It is likely not a coincidence that this occurred precisely with red. As Sam G once noted, this is probably the only color that is used often in Currier A (37 pages), but rarely in B (1 page).
Considering this discrepancy together with the fact that several "red" color annotations are found in blank spaces suggests to me that red painting may have been halted at some point.
If the letters in the root of 4r are 'rot' German for red, then since these letters are also shone separately, on page You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. then this would suggest that you can plug in the rest of the German alphabet and solve the entire book... -
RE: [split] Color annotations?
-JKP- > 13-08-2019, 06:50 PM
(13-08-2019, 02:23 PM)Monica Yokubinas Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.If the letters in the root of 4r are 'rot' German for red, then since these letters are also shone separately, on page You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. then this would suggest that you can plug in the rest of the German alphabet and solve the entire book...
No, I don't see the logic in this.
Putting annotations in German doesn't mean the language of the main text is German. Annotations can be in German and the manuscript might be in Italian or Latin. The scribe and the painter were usually different people, and it's even possible that an annotator might be someone different, as well (like the medieval version of a botanist brought in as an advisor).