ReneZ > 06-09-2022, 08:26 PM
(06-09-2022, 03:27 PM)Ahmet Ardıç Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.As you can see, the first number of "Persian language of YEK" (آ / یکی) and the Turkish word "TEK" overlap both phonetically and in meaning. We can establish similar examples between the number pronouns in English and the number pronouns in Turkish too. Etc. ...
For example, VAR (BAR/BİR) > ONE sound conversion should probably have passed from one of the Tatar-Turkish dialects to English as ONE. (VAR > ONE) are words that are close in sound value and overlap in meaning.
The word THREE (3) in English is the sound form of the word DİRİ/TİRİ in old Turkish. This word can be use as the name of the third finger in our hand in Turkish and one of its many meanings in Turkish was (UZUN/DİRİ/İRİ) "longer than the others (it was said for the longer finger)".
Ahmet Ardıç > 06-09-2022, 09:58 PM
(06-09-2022, 08:26 PM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(06-09-2022, 03:27 PM)Ahmet Ardıç Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.As you can see, the first number of "Persian language of YEK" (آ / یکی) and the Turkish word "TEK" overlap both phonetically and in meaning. We can establish similar examples between the number pronouns in English and the number pronouns in Turkish too. Etc. ...
For example, VAR (BAR/BİR) > ONE sound conversion should probably have passed from one of the Tatar-Turkish dialects to English as ONE. (VAR > ONE) are words that are close in sound value and overlap in meaning.
The word THREE (3) in English is the sound form of the word DİRİ/TİRİ in old Turkish. This word can be use as the name of the third finger in our hand in Turkish and one of its many meanings in Turkish was (UZUN/DİRİ/İRİ) "longer than the others (it was said for the longer finger)".
It is true that the numerals from one to ten give some good hints (but of course not 'proof') about the relation between languages. It is easy to see how these numerals in Farsi / Persian are related to several Indo-European languages. Of course, that is just a small part of the evidence that Farsi is Indo-European.
It is also easy to see that the modern Turkish numerals do not look like Indo-European numerals *at all*.
However, if another set of words, which could include "Tek" and "Diri"/"Tiri", in old or modern Turkish, do resemble Indo-European numerals, then it is just possible that these were introduced in parallel from neighbouring languages. And these could very well be Indo-European.
Exactly the same thing happens in the Thai langauge. This is a S-E Asian language which has no relation whatsoever with Indo-European. The words for one to five are:
Nüng, Song, Sam, Si, Ha.
However, there is another set that is used a.o. as prefixes, which sounds like:
Ek, To, Tri, Jattawa, Benja.
This shows a strong relation with Indo-European. How could that happen?
Easy. The main religion in Thailand is Buddhist, and many words related to religion derive from Sanskrit, which is Indo-European. Others derive from Pali, another Indian language.
So, if Persian numerals appear similar to some versions of Turkish numerals, this does not mean that Persian is not Indo-European. To the contrary. It rather indicates that these Turkish versions derive from Indo-European.
However, just two out of ten isn't anywhere near sufficient, and a relation between "Tek" and "Yek" appears very far from certain to me.
cvetkakocj@rogers.com > 06-09-2022, 10:39 PM
(05-09-2022, 12:17 PM)Ahmet Ardıç Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Because Turkish words have word-suffixes. These suffixes can refer to the first, second and third persons, as well as contain information such as past, future, present tense etc. Therefore, when the subject person and tense described in some pages change, the phonetic value structure at the end of the word also changes sharply. Therefore, it is thought that "there is a different language in the content", but there is no different language.
Ahmet Ardıç > 08-09-2022, 08:59 PM
Ahmet Ardıç > 26-09-2022, 05:03 PM
Juan_Sali > 26-09-2022, 07:55 PM
Ahmet Ardıç > 26-09-2022, 11:31 PM
(26-09-2022, 07:55 PM)Juan_Sali Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I have a question about the symbol q
I created the following table based on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..
It shows the number of times a symbol preceeds and follows q inside voynichese words, aiin is compacted as well as P that you transcribe as iko.
The symbol q is almost always at the begining of the words and is followed by the symbol o o. Is it compatible with turkish?
Ahmet Ardıç > 27-09-2022, 12:05 AM
(26-09-2022, 07:55 PM)Juan_Sali Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I have a question about the symbol q
I created the following table based on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..
It shows the number of times a symbol preceeds and follows q inside voynichese words, aiin is compacted as well as P that you transcribe as iko.
The symbol q is almost always at the begining of the words and is followed by the symbol o o. Is it compatible with turkish?
Juan_Sali > 27-09-2022, 12:53 AM
(26-09-2022, 11:31 PM)Ahmet Ardıç Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.the meaning of ÖDThe combination oq appears 22 times in the whole VMS, if o have several meanings then the different meanings of the combination make it even more marginal.
(26-09-2022, 11:31 PM)Ahmet Ardıç Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.You say that the symbol 4 is always followed by the symbol O. However, examining the words here with this approach is one of the many mistakes made very often.But the numbers are clear, this combination represents 5.289 of 5.421. Where is the mistake in the approach? You can evaluate the words one by one, but that will not change the global numbers. The approach of big numbers to understand the relation between symbols is good for any language that uses them, I dont see any reason why turkish should be different.
As a result, trying to classify the words you want to examine by making tables in this way can be applied for Indo-European language words. But it is not applicable for Turkish. Here, due to the special and difficult-to-read writing style of the VM texts, it will be necessary to evaluate only and only the words in the form of phrases and sentences with the word in front of them.
(26-09-2022, 11:31 PM)Ahmet Ardıç Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Your use of apps like "voynichese" is misleading. Because, for example, you read a single or multiple syllable character as if it were a single letter. Just like the phonetic sign you thought was P. For this reason, the table you have already made is wrong and misleading. Forget the Voynichese app and EVA tables.The group of P. I am not reading it in any way. The apps voynichese does not read it in any way. It just count coincidences, and it says than the group of P is preceded by q only 3 times in the whole Vms, and never is followed by q.
Ahmet Ardıç > 27-09-2022, 01:55 PM
(27-09-2022, 12:53 AM)Juan_Sali Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(26-09-2022, 11:31 PM)Ahmet Ardıç Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.the meaning of ÖDThe combination oq appears 22 times in the whole VMS, if o have several meanings then the different meanings of the combination make it even more marginal.
(26-09-2022, 11:31 PM)Ahmet Ardıç Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.You say that the symbol 4 is always followed by the symbol O. However, examining the words here with this approach is one of the many mistakes made very often.But the numbers are clear, this combination represents 5.289 of 5.421. Where is the mistake in the approach? You can evaluate the words one by one, but that will not change the global numbers. The approach of big numbers to understand the relation between symbols is good for any language that uses them, I dont see any reason why turkish should be different.
As a result, trying to classify the words you want to examine by making tables in this way can be applied for Indo-European language words. But it is not applicable for Turkish. Here, due to the special and difficult-to-read writing style of the VM texts, it will be necessary to evaluate only and only the words in the form of phrases and sentences with the word in front of them.
(26-09-2022, 11:31 PM)Ahmet Ardıç Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Your use of apps like "voynichese" is misleading. Because, for example, you read a single or multiple syllable character as if it were a single letter. Just like the phonetic sign you thought was P. For this reason, the table you have already made is wrong and misleading. Forget the Voynichese app and EVA tables.The group of P. I am not reading it in any way. The apps voynichese does not read it in any way. It just count coincidences, and it says than the group of P is preceded by q only 3 times in the whole Vms, and never is followed by q.
My table counts coincidences, there is nothing wrong in it. How do you interpretate the data is the question.