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• RE: Morten St George Theory

  Morten St. George > 03-04-2019, 05:03 AM

  (03-04-2019, 01:07 AM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.NO I DON'T HAVE A HANGUP AGAINST THE AMERICAS. I included the Americas in every phase of my plant research. Also Africa, East Asia. I ALWAYS searched the entire globe.
  
  And I've already read those papers. I've read most of what VMS researchers have written about plants. It's garbage research. Poor scholarship.
  
  The Bonolobus chloranthus picture? That's an ATYPICAL picture of the plant. It usually doesn't look like that. They cherry-picked an atypical picture of the plant TO FIT THEIR THEORY. They did NOT include the European plant that looks more like the VMS plant than their example. BAD SCHOLARSHIP.
  
  The Philodendron mexicanum? They picked it to fit their theory. There are a DOZEN European plants that ALSO look like this drawing and they didn't include them. BAD SCHOLARSHIP.
  
  BAD RESEARCH.
  
  When I told you that there is a pocket in the U.S. where the climatic conditions are similar to a region in Italy, I was not putting down the Americas. I was INFORMING you that there are places on the planet where some of the same plants are found or CLOSE LOOK-ALIKES are found.
  
  I have written blogs about the Janick/Talbert/Tucker research. Maybe you should read them before you trust their "evidence" and their conclusions:
  
  Janick/Tucker misinterpretation of medieval characters: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
  Janick/Tucker questionable interpretation of animal drawings: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
  Talbert/Tucker questionable identification of plants (tunnel-vision): You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
  Janick/Tucker HIGHLY questionable identification of fish: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
  
  They're not doing honest research. They are choosing examples that fit their theory and ignoring the ones that contradict their theory.
  
  BAD SCHOLARSHIP.

  
  Their possession of university credentials has never prevented me from classifying Janick, Talbert and Tucker as crackpots. There can be no justification for rejecting the radiocarbon dating especially since it has not yet been proven that any drawing inside the VMS depicts something that postdates the year 1244 let alone the year 1438.
  
  It is simply not credible that someone in Spain would store blank vellum for a hundred or more years, then bring it to Mexico in the 16th century to create an encrypted herbal there. The sanity of Janick, Talbert and Tucker is questionable, though for money or prestige, academics have often proposed absurd things.
  
  Know that the opinions of charlatans and crackpots have no bearing on the truth or falsehood of any theory. In other words, it is not appropriate to reject all Made-in-the-Americas theories for the VMS on the basis of the bad research of Janick, Talbert and Tucker. At this point in time, even good research has failed to provide an indisputable case for Europe.

• RE: Morten St George Theory

  -JKP- > 03-04-2019, 05:29 AM

  I never called them crackpots and I don't question their sanity in any way.
  
  I said it was bad scholarship.
  
  .
  And I need to point out to you AGAIN that I have never rejected the possibility of the Americas. How many times do I have to say it? Assigning it a lower probability is NOT the same as rejecting it. The lower probability is based on data.
  
  It doesn't matter if no one has provided an indisputable argument for Europe. You can't reject Europe based on that. The research isn't finished yet... for any region.
  

• RE: Morten St George Theory

  Morten St. George > 03-04-2019, 04:58 PM

  (03-04-2019, 05:29 AM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I never called them crackpots and I don't question their sanity in any way.
  
  I said it was bad scholarship.
  .
  And I need to point out to you AGAIN that I have never rejected the possibility of the Americas. How many times do I have to say it? Assigning it a lower probability is NOT the same as rejecting it. The lower probability is based on data.
  
  It doesn't matter if no one has provided an indisputable argument for Europe. You can't reject Europe based on that. The research isn't finished yet... for any region.

  
  I fully appreciate that Janick, Talbert and Tucker found themselves caught between a rock and a hard place. What were they supposed to do? Suggest that the carbon dating could be erroneous or fraudulent (quite unprofessional to do that) or claim that there had to be Europeans who beat Columbus to America (for which they would have surely received ridicule from many quarters as there is little evidence of such a thing beyond the VMS itself).
  
  The carbon dating is itself part of the problem: many people fail to realize that the U. of Arizona could have been dating not an original production but only a copy of earlier writings. While the early 15th century in Europe was not conducive for a desperate escape, the same cannot be said for the 13th century.
  
  Compounding the problem, people also fail to realize that it is possible for Europeans to have settled in the Americas during the 13th century without leaving descendants. I here cite two sentences about the Cathars from the Catholic Encyclopedia:
  
  

  Quote:But the worst danger was that the triumph of the heretical principles meant the extinction of the human race. This annihilation was the direct consequence of the Catharist doctrine, that all intercourse between the sexes ought to be avoided and that suicide or the Endura, under certain circumstances, is not only lawful but commendable.

  
  Though the European Cathars in America would have had no children (and indeed the naked women are not depicted with infants or little kids in the VMS), they certainly could have left native American converts to their religion behind, who in turn would have converted new generations of native Americans to the religion including those who would eventually copy the writings of the European migrants, ie. parts of the VMS. There is no reason why those writings could not have included drawings of European plants in a European herbal tradition. Indeed, if these Cathars had passed though Toledo as postulated, they surely could have had contact with herbals including some of Arabic origin.
  
  Historical sources say that the Triple Alliance (the beginning of the Aztec Empire) was founded in 1430 and then spread across Mexico during the coming decades, that is, likely not long after completion of the VMS. Since the Aztecs forced conquered peoples to adopt their religion and language, it's possible that Catharism in Mexico was extinguished even before the arrival of the Spanish Inquisition.

• RE: Morten St George Theory

  Morten St. George > 04-04-2019, 11:35 AM

  (31-03-2019, 06:18 PM)davidjackson Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

  Quote:In medieval mystic literature, the original book that held the VMS prophecies glowed in the dark, ie. emitted light. By chanting the names of God in the presence of this book, the mystics were able to increase its luminosity, so presumably the book could hear as well or, at least, was sensitive to sound. Due to its light-emitting qualities, the mystics assumed that the book was divine revelation written in heaven itself, black fire on white fire drawn from the primordial light of the universe.

  
  Question: ah, actually, never mind.

  
  I think I should have clarified that from the viewpoint of many Judaic scholars, the medieval mystics were neither rational nor even sane. Thus, though their literature is saturated with references to what I say, it is not formally reported that such a book (often referred to as the "book of light" or the "revelations of Elijah" in the literature) ever existed.
  
  Interspersed with references to the book of light, I found references to the prophecies that I claim are contained in quire 20 of the VMS. Thus, I do not rule out the possibility that the book of light really existed because the prophecies themselves may imply advanced powers. A decoding of quire 20 could help resolve the issue.

• RE: Morten St George Theory

  ReneZ > 04-04-2019, 01:53 PM

  Crackpots eh?
  
  The crackpot calling the crackkettle black, if you ask me.

• RE: Morten St George Theory

  Morten St. George > 04-04-2019, 04:32 PM

  (04-04-2019, 01:53 PM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Crackpots eh?
  
  The crackpot calling the crackkettle black, if you ask me.

  
  A Google search line on "Kabbalah", "white light" and "black light" should convince you that I did not invent the black light.
  
  To my thinking, a crackpot is someone who thinks the complex encryption of the VMS was created to protect their description of plants.
  
  And, FYI, one of the decoders of the VMS speculated on the existence of extraterrestrial life.
  
  PS. On that Google search, you can also replace "white light" and "black light" with "black fire" and "white fire" per my original phraseology.

• RE: Morten St George Theory

  Morten St. George > 12-04-2019, 07:29 AM

  (01-03-2019, 01:08 AM)VViews Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Your task is to reciprocate JKP's efforts by actually reading the many posts on JKP's blog. 

  
  I went back to JP's blog yesterday and I'd like everyone to know that I was very impressed with his analysis of the blue cube. I even think it will help me to correct a grievous error in my Rosetta Stone essay.
  
  This here is the blue cube:
  
  
  
  And this is what JP wrote about it:
  
  

  Quote:What's even more surprising is that there seems to be another line at the bottom in another hand. It's not small and neat like Voynichese, and it doesn't look like Voynich characters. It's reminiscent of the large straight angular block letter scribbles that are drawn by children, somewhat like the scribbles on a few of the VMS pages. It looks like it might be "S A L" which is "salt" in some languages, and which might apply to a cube in a page of plants. Salt was a preservative, an ingredient in medicinal recipes, and was, of course, used in food.

  
  As anyone who has read my writings already knows, I'm really big on sal (salt) having written about it extensively in my Rosetta Stone essay and elsewhere. Here's a couple of citations from the essay:
  
  «««
  
  
  
  One must assume that this is Spanish as the first few words have already steered us to that language. And indeed we find that ola (the first three letters) is the Spanish word for wave, which fits quite well with the saline sea of the first verse. Meanwhile, dabas is the Spanish word for you gave, from where we understand you gave wave, fair enough for a free city on the sea. But now look closer at that d in the middle of oladabas.
  
  
  
  The bottom part is open, not closed as it should be, and top curves over to the right and there is even a mark further out to the right as if the top should be extended to reach it. In other words, in isolation, that d could easily be construed as an s, actually a capital S when contrasted with the small a's that surround it. Notice that this S is preceded by la, and in reverse, laS gives us Sal, the Spanish word for Salt (the Sel of Seline.
  
  »»»
  
  And later in the same essay, I return to the salt theme:
  
  «««
  
  
  
  Note the words "sel & vin", salt and wine, in the third line, which effectively draws this prophecy to V-35 via the last line of V-34. In other words, chances are good that where the tails come to an end after each of the last four full red-colored stars on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. are the four lines that convert into prophecy IX-49 ...
  
  Of course, if You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. really holds prophecy IX-49, it would effectively double the size of our Rosetta Stone.
  
  »»»
  
  The third line translates as "The salt and wine to it shall be to the inverse" (ie. on the opposite side). With logic similar to how laS reverses to Ssl, note that the quire number (20) is found in reverse, on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (the first page of the quire) and not on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (the last page of the quire) where it should be. Therefore, our point of reference for seeking the inverse is likely to be f103r.
  
  The inverse of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. could be You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. but laS and the quire number location seem to indicate that we should move backwards, that is, the inverse of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. might be f102r. Actually, that would be f102r1 as we find the insertion of a foldout, f102r2 and f102v2, between f102r1 and f103r. On the other hand, there's a huge hole in the parchment on the inserted folio so, in effect, part of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. faces f102v1, and the inverse of that again brings us to f102r1.
  
  And where do we find JP's salt box? That's right. On f102r1!
  
  The moral of this story is that it looks like I got it wrong. The "salt & wine" prophecy surely comes from You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and not You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. as stated. f103r, You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (the saline sea prophecy) and You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. are the only three pages where the stars are fully colored in red so it is logical that they are meant to run together. I will make the needed corrections shortly.

• RE: Morten St George Theory

  -JKP- > 12-04-2019, 10:09 AM

  I hope people don't think from your post that I was definitely saying it says "S A L". That's only what it appears to resemble. It might mean salt, or it might be initials for something, or it might be something else (other people have proposed credible alternate readings).

• RE: Morten St George Theory

  Morten St. George > 12-04-2019, 11:56 AM

  (12-04-2019, 10:09 AM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I hope people don't think from your post that I was definitely saying it says "S A L". That's only what it appears to resemble. It might mean salt, or it might be initials for something, or it might be something else (other people have proposed credible alternate readings).

  
  I only wish my computer had sufficient resolution for me to see it for myself but, regardless, salt makes sense for something that looks like a cube or box.

• RE: Morten St George Theory

  davidjackson > 13-04-2019, 08:12 AM

  Quote:And indeed we find that ola (the first three letters) is the Spanish word for wave, which fits quite well with the saline sea of the first verse. Meanwhile, dabas is the Spanish word for you gave, from where we understand you gave wave, fair enough for a free city on the sea. But now look closer at that d in the middle of oladabas

  
  Don't you understand the most basic rules of grammar? Dabas is the imperfect indicative, it refers to a past action that has been interrupted. The closest English translation would be you had given and the verb refers to the action of passing, giving or producing. IE I thought that you were giving me the ball (Creí que me dabas la pelota).
  
  What on earth do you think you gave wave means? It's nonsensical in any language. 
  
  You'd be better off saying that it means Cauldron of beans (Ol[l]a d[e]'[f]abas - Ola d abas) which at least makes more sense
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