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• RE: Morten St George Theory

  Morten St. George > 01-12-2018, 06:09 AM

  (27-11-2018, 07:12 AM)Morten St. George Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

  (26-11-2018, 11:06 AM)Paris Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Here are two examples from a dictionary of latin abbreviations (lexicon abbreviaturum)
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  I noticed that a few of the abbreviations in that book resemble Voynich symbols. Has anyone compiled a complete list of such abbreviations and what they abbreviate?
  
  An abbreviation that I saw in the published output was "tēps" for "temps". Makes me think that VMS decoding requires a mechanism for associating consonants with vowels or vice versa. I'm working on it.

  
  I've just noticed that we have a precedent for the use of the abbreviation 'tē' for 'tem' on f72v:
  
  
  
  Actually, the bar covers both the 't' and the 'e' to represent 'tem', producing octembre. This is similar to the 've' in the marginalia on f73r, where a bar covers both the 'v' and the 'e' to represent 'vem' changing novebre into novembre.
  
  From this, I'm starting to think that I could be wrong that the 'cz' glyphs under the bar in the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. marginalia represent the Latin letters 'on' (as an expansion of the 'ō' found via the fritillaria plant). In view of octebre, I can now envision the 'cz' glyphs as representing the Latin letters 'pō' (if written in a right to left direction the z glyph is the 'p' and long c the ō) which would then expand into 'pon'.
  
  Combinations of two letters, called 'gates', was a central theme. Look at the interior of the wheels of the Merkabah on f57v:
  
  
  
  We see four individuals in the middle, each with his back to one of the four transliteration alphabets of 17 letters, each with an arm raised and pointing to the opposite set of the alphabet letters. What if we have a consonantary of 17 characters alternating with a vocalization of 17 characters? Then, for example, Mem (m) might lie opposite the 'e' of 'Yahowe' to give us 'ē', and Nun (n) might lie opposite the 'o' of 'Yihwo' to give us 'ō'. Just a thought. There are other possibilities.

• RE: Morten St George Theory

  -JKP- > 01-12-2018, 08:57 AM

  The most common expansion for c'z (with the z being a rotated m symbol and the apostrophe being the line, the macron) would be -cem, -corem, or -corum. It can be other things too, whatever fits the context, but these would be the most common. The rotated "m" usually stands for "m" with 1, 2 or 3 (or more) letters between it and the preceding letter.

• RE: Morten St George Theory

  DONJCH > 01-12-2018, 10:08 AM

  (26-11-2018, 04:52 PM)Morten St. George Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

  (26-11-2018, 08:50 AM)DONJCH Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Not only have VMS characters been converted to ASCII, but it is possible to use them on this site.

  
  Thanks. I didn't know that. If you don't mind, please insert a few VMS symbols into the Latin text of your next post so that I can see what it looks like.

  
  Hello Morten,
  
  If you check this thread, the instructions are there
  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
  
  Example daiin:
  daiin

• RE: Morten St George Theory

  Morten St. George > 01-12-2018, 12:14 PM

  (01-12-2018, 10:08 AM)DONJCH Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.If you check this thread, the instructions are there
  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
  
  Example daiin:
  daiin

  
  Thanks so much. I'm going to try it right here: c m . Seems to work! These are two glyphs that I think are under the bar at the top of f17r.

• RE: Morten St George Theory

  -JKP- > 01-12-2018, 12:38 PM

  Examples of the rotated-m abbreviation symbol, which is typically used at the ends of words:
  
  

• RE: Morten St George Theory

  Morten St. George > 01-12-2018, 01:37 PM

  (01-12-2018, 08:57 AM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The most common expansion for c'z (with the z being a rotated m symbol and the apostrophe being the line, the macron) would be -cem, -corem, or -corum. It can be other things too, whatever fits the context, but these would be the most common. The rotated "m" usually stands for "m" with 1, 2 or 3 (or more) letters between it and the preceding letter.

  
  I continue to believe that your z (rotated m) is a collapsed, colored-in version of the EVA symbol m . This symbol combines the EVA symbol i with the EVA symbol l and then adds a tail, similar to how the Roman number for 3, iii, is sometimes written with a tail: iij. Like the Latin j, this symbol is often found at the end of words written in a left to right direction. More importantly, it's also in the transliteration alphabet on f57v.
  
  Let's have another look at the entire word and concentrate on the first letter:
  
  
  
  You see the letter l there and I see a letter P or p. But I also see a clue that the second letter under the bar is a m because, like the m, this l or p has a backward leaning i (the EVA symbol i) at its base. Four other l's in that marginalia have no such base.
  
  Please confirm that you are able to see EVA symbols in this post so that I can continue to use them. The matter of whether those are Latin letters or EVA symbols under the bar is surely important for decoding the VMS.

• RE: Morten St George Theory

  -JKP- > 01-12-2018, 05:36 PM

  Morten, I've created FOUR transcripts of the VMS script. I have looked at EVERY SINGLE glyph in the manuscript many many times and there is nowhere in the manuscript where [font=Eva]m is drawn like that or combined like that. [/font]
  
  It does not look like [font=Sans-serif][font=Eva]m[/font] at all (or [font=Eva]m[/font] combined with long-c). It does look like a normal medieval rotated-m or z. I've looked at THOUSANDS of manuscripts so I'm familiar with what they did and what they didn't do and your idea is quite far outside anything I've seen in the VMS.[/font] A few of the glyphs are a bit mangled, but they are not mangled like that. They vary in predictable understandable ways. Your glyph idea simply isn't close enough to reality.
  
  Other than the "c" which is a normal Latin letter, the letters in this word do not look like Voynich glyphs. There IS a possible Voynich glyph in the next word.

• RE: Morten St George Theory

  Morten St. George > 01-12-2018, 08:10 PM

  (01-12-2018, 05:36 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Morten, I've created FOUR transcripts of the VMS script. I have looked at EVERY SINGLE glyph in the manuscript many many times and there is nowhere in the manuscript where [font=Eva]m is drawn like that or combined like that. [/font]
  
  It does not look like [font=Sans-serif][font=Eva]m[/font] at all (or [font=Eva]m[/font] combined with long-c). It does look like a normal medieval rotated-m or z. I've looked at THOUSANDS of manuscripts so I'm familiar with what they did and what they didn't do and your idea is quite far outside anything I've seen in the VMS.[/font] A few of the glyphs are a bit mangled, but they are not mangled like that. They vary in predictable understandable ways. Your glyph idea simply isn't close enough to reality.
  
  Other than the "c" which is a normal Latin letter, the letters in this word do not look like Voynich glyphs. There IS a possible Voynich glyph in the next word.

  
  I think we are both seeing what we want to see.
  
  So far, I have found the symbol half colored-in in the marginalia of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. but it is fully colored-in on f17r:
  
  
  
  It seems you are unable to envision a colored-in eight-figure on the top of your rotated m and my biggest gripe about your viewpoint is that I am unable to detect any separation between the c and the rotated m. This causes me to  assume an elongated c which is a VMS symbol and not a Latin letter, and if the elongated c is a symbol then likewise for the following character. Or are you saying that there are two macrons, one connecting the c and the rotated m and another one above the two of them?
  
  Perhaps you have these figures in a better resolution than what I have (which is horrible)? If so, please post it and maybe you can convince me.

• RE: Morten St George Theory

  Koen G > 01-12-2018, 08:27 PM

  Morten, if we all say JKP is right, will it become more acceptable to you?

• RE: Morten St George Theory

  Morten St. George > 01-12-2018, 09:05 PM

  (01-12-2018, 08:27 PM)Koen Gh. Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Morten, if we all say JKP is right, will it become more acceptable to you?

  
  I am not posting here to convince myself but to attract the interest of others, particularly cryptologists, to follow up on my theories. So it does indeed matter what you guys think.
  
  JP is outstanding in what he does. I know that and that is why I like to engage with him. But I'm quite sure he has never encountered Rosicrucian handwriting elsewhere: they destroyed all their manuscripts. VMS marginalia is all that has survived as handwriting. As I've said before, they write to lead unwelcome people astray. If a VMS symbol just happens to resemble a Latin abbreviation, they would most certainly take advantage of it.
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