- Options
- Login
- Desktop Style
Options
What is unique or rare about the VM Zodiac signs?
- What is unique or rare about the VM Zodiac signs?
-
RE: What is unique or rare about the VM Zodiac signs?
ReneZ > 09-12-2017, 09:56 PM
From memory, the main argument of Pamela Richards why the Aries animals in the Voynich MS look more like goats, was the presence of 'dew claws'. It could also have been someone else's argument (Stolfi's ?).
There can be no doubt that these have been drawn deliberately.
However, there can be doubt that only goats have these, and sheep don't. At least some types of sheep seem to have some protrusions above the hooves.
The more general characteristic of the Voynich Aries that make them look like goats is that they are relatively 'skinny', and show no signs of wool. However, there are plenty of types of sheep (also in Europe!) that are skinny and hairy.
These are often mistaken for goats.
There's a You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. of people being attached by a goat, but the animal in question is a sheep.
Having grown up and spent all my life in cities, I don't know anything about cattle, but the one characteristic that one can learn from the net, on how to separate goats and sheep, is the tail. It hangs down for sheep and tends to stand up for goats. From this perspective, the Voynich MS animals are sheep.
However, the drawings are clearly not 'standard' Aries images, so one could possibly describe them as skinny, or having short horns. -
RE: What is unique or rare about the VM Zodiac signs?
-JKP- > 10-12-2017, 05:00 AM
Scorpio
Dino/Lizard Scorpius
Standing Scorpio (the dino/long-legged style) was at least partly disseminated from the carvings on French churches (this was mentioned in my blog about Scorpio). The awareness of the idea may have been more related to these portals than to manuscripts in this area because only a few people had access to manuscripts, whereas everyone could see the decorations on churches.
The earliest carvings I was able to find that many people were able to see were in the northern-French/Flanders/Normandy area, carved into portals. There's a brontosaurus-style Scorpius with long legs in Basilique St.-Madeleine, Vezelay (W. Burgundy) from c. 1130.
Around the same time, one was created in St. Lazare, a Clunaic church. It's hard to know if it's a dino-Scorpio or lizard-Scorpio because it's carved from the top, which means the partly spread legs may have been done that way simply so they could be seen (and because it's difficult to carve high-relief to get the legs underneath). And I've already mentioned in my blog and upthread the tarask/dino Scorpius on the Chartres north portal c. 1198 to c. 1217.
The earliest manuscript I know with an actual lizard (legs spread to the side rather than underneath) is MS Reg. Lat. 438, which has a distinctly Roman feel to the palette and drawing style, and the way the clothing was depicted. It was created at Reichenau (Alsace), after 855, perhaps late in the late 9th century. The lizard is climbing a pillar and I think it's pretty certain it is a lizard. Since this was one of the largest scriptoria in Europe, one would expect it to influence many other manuscripts, and yet the idea of a lizard (a real lizard) never really caught on in a big way. The Tarask-style, frog-style, and dragon-style seem to have taken its place—maybe a lizard wasn't considered glamorous enough.
Cotton MS Nero C IV has a mammalian-style Scorpius with a mutiply curled tail (it's quite dog-like). It's Anglo-Norman, which makes sense since the other dino-style scorpios are from the same general region. It's c. 1200 give or take a few decades. Then comes MS D.6 Psalter from England, c. 1215 (this image has been uploaded by several people).It has a curled tail.
Frog-Scorpius
The frog-scorpions may have originated in Leon (c. 1063). There is one on the font of St. Augustine's church in England, from the 11th or 12th century, but it may have been brought to England from France (perhaps southern France???).
Dragon-Scorpius
In England, the dragon scorpios start showing up around 1080 or so (example: Arundel 60). There's a really elaborate one in the Hunterian Psalter (c. 1170). Walters 73 (England), has a winged two-headed dragon (c. 1195).
Turtle-Scorpius
The frog and the turtle are the least common styles of Scorpius. The earliest "turtle-Scorpius" I've seen is Hildegard von Bingen's and another shows up about a century later (c. 1220) in Cod.1.2.4.19 Augsburg Psalterium. Since the tarasque was sometimes depicted as part turtle, it's possible that these turtle-scorpions are intended as tarasques (there's no consistency in how the tarasque was drawn, it was everything from rhino to turtle to conventional dragon... the only way you know it's a tarask for certain is when it is associated with St. Margaret).
As far as I'm aware, I'm the only one who has made a concerted study of the distinctions between the different Scorpios and where they originated and I have much more data on this, this is just a selection of important early examples.
Libra
The scales on Bodley Marsh 144 (with Arabic annotations) is spread a little wider than usual, as is the VMS, and are squared-off. The chain connectors are loops, however. -
RE: What is unique or rare about the VM Zodiac signs?
Koen G > 10-12-2017, 09:46 AM
JKP: I got to run now but I'll comment on one thing already: the Vezelay Scorpio, do you mean the one in the arch above the portal? Because that looks like the typical "crab" variety to me. I'd say that for example the one from Chartres cathedral looks more dino-like. -
RE: What is unique or rare about the VM Zodiac signs?
-JKP- > 10-12-2017, 10:37 AM
You can find it here ( Vézelay tympanum.):
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Look to the far right, find the goat-fish Capricorn second from bottom. Jump over one to Sagittarius, jump over one more and you will see the dino-Scorpio. It has six legs, the front ones shorter, otherwise, it's similar to a brontosaurus. -
RE: What is unique or rare about the VM Zodiac signs?
Koen G > 10-12-2017, 11:41 AM
Right! I hadn't found a decent picture yet, it seems.
The one from Cotton MS Nero C IV is quite impressive, it's got the "paws" and everything.
-
RE: What is unique or rare about the VM Zodiac signs?
MarcoP > 10-12-2017, 12:45 PM
Hi Koen,
it seems you have already collected a good part of the most relevant stuff. Well done!
Here are a few comments:
Cancer
Quote:While double crayfish are possibly unique, double crabs do appear in other manuscripts.
As far as I know, double crabs appear in a single manuscript: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (England, ca. 1325-1330, discussed by Olga Koseleff Gordon).
Leo
Maybe the bestiary lion you previously referred to is this one, discussed on the site of Stephen Bax?
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
It appears in a ms pointed out by Darren Worley (Biblioteca Apostolica Vaticana, Pal. Lat. 291, Rabanus Maurus, South Germany, 1425).
Virgo
As already mentioned You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., and discussed on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., Virgo holds a "tailed star" which seems quite unique. Of course, most illustrations of Virgo have something representing "Spica", but not in this form, as far as I remember. Even if this "Spica" turned out not to be totally unique, the tethered star is similar to those in Pisces and Scorpio. This systematic deviation from common images of the zodiac signs is worth mentioning, in my opinion. -
RE: What is unique or rare about the VM Zodiac signs?
-JKP- > 10-12-2017, 04:22 PM
I don't have time to look in my file right now, I only have a moment, but I've seen double crabs in at least one Arabic manuscript (Kitab al Bulhan, 14c, two big gray ones) and in others where each constellation is mirrored so show both skyviews (al-Rahman al-Sufi).
It's the double crayfish that is unusual. -
RE: What is unique or rare about the VM Zodiac signs?
Koen G > 10-12-2017, 07:43 PM
But we shouldn't really count those manuscripts where everything is mirrored, right? I mean, that's a thing of its own. For example in the Kitab al Bulhan you mention, there's also mirrored Leo and everything. So might Marco's example be the only one with genuine doubled crabs? -
RE: What is unique or rare about the VM Zodiac signs?
-JKP- > 10-12-2017, 08:06 PM
Yes, the double crab Marco found might be unique outside of the context of mirrored constellations that are consistent for several signs, I have to check.
More on multiples...
Every time I look at my files I remember something I've forgotten (it's a lot of zodiacs).
For example, Royal MS 2 B VII has multiples...
but they appear to me to be very specific. As far as I can tell, the reason for the multiples (Aries, Taurus, Capricorn, Sagittarius) is because they are herd animals. Since Sagittarius is part horse, that would make it a herd animal too. There appears to be a lioness next to the lion (strangely drawn). Lions are pack/pride animals, so perhaps were also considered a "herd" animal by the illsutrator. The others aren't replicated. There are 5 sheep, 3 bulls, 2 goats, 2 centaurs. The rest are single. I almost expected Pisces to be replicated, but the marine critters are not. -
RE: What is unique or rare about the VM Zodiac signs?
Koen G > 10-12-2017, 08:36 PM
Alright, the thread should be up to date, let me know if anything is missing. Thanks Marco and JKP for your hard work on this. Let's hope that in 2018 we'll be able to move some "uniques" to "rare"
If anything is missing it will probably be about clothing, but I agree with Marco that this deserves a separate discussion.