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• f82r top: hanging capital?

• f82r top: hanging capital?

  MarcoP > 09-10-2017, 05:02 PM

  I wonder if the two arched tubes at the top of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. were intentionally arranged in such a way that they look like architectural frames appearing in other manuscripts. These two examples are later than the VMS, but I think the “hanging capital” motif also appears in early medieval manuscripts.
  I would be interested in seeing other examples, especially if they are closer to the weird “capital” in the VMS and / or earlier than these two.
  Both these books present several occurrences of the motif.
  
  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (I couldn't find a complete scan of the 1496 edition)
  
  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (also note the two naked guys at the sides of the arches)

• RE: f82r top: hanging capital?

  -JKP- > 09-10-2017, 11:15 PM

  You know what, Marco?
  
  I noticed the hanging capitals on the rosette foldout but I never could make any sense of the dangly thing on this page.
  
  It looked architectural to me, but because it was attached by "tubes" or "streams" rather than something at the top, I thought it might be some kind of container, like a sconce/wall bracket/corbel (top row), especially the ones in corners that have supporting arches "streaming" out of the top. Or... I thought it might be a simplified drawing of a medieval wall font or pulpit (bottom row). I overlooked the fact that it might be a hanging fancy capital.
  
  
  
  
  
  This one even has an "umbrella" (a common motif in the VMS), and archways "streaming" from one side of the lower part (but it's not as convincing as a hanging capital with arches on both sides):
  
  
  
  
  The wall pulpits also remind me of many of the VMS "zoomers" although not all of them are ecclesiastical, some are lookouts or balconies.
  
  

• RE: f82r top: hanging capital?

  Davidsch > 10-10-2017, 11:14 AM

  The bundled energy always reminds me of a medieval laser device.

• RE: f82r top: hanging capital?

  VViews > 10-10-2017, 03:23 PM

  (09-10-2017, 05:02 PM)MarcoP Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I wonder if the two arched tubes at the top of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. were intentionally arranged in such a way that they look like architectural frames appearing in other manuscripts...
  I would be interested in seeing other examples, especially if they are closer to the weird “capital” in the VMS and / or earlier than these two.

  
  Hello MarcoP,
  I get this impression too.
  In another You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. I wondered whether this page may have been inspired by the architectural structures we see being used as framing devices for pages of text with a multi-column layout: there too we find this type of arches and capitals at the top of the page, although they are generally supported by pillars. I find your example to be an even better match.
  I also think there is another element which reinforces your point:
  In another thread, which I can't seem to locate anymore (did it disappear during the Coventry incident?), Koen Gh and I had discussed the plant on f11r. As you can see, the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. plant seems to show a similar structure, with two arched branches meeting above a suspended leaf. There too, the hanging capital could have been an inspiration for the odd branch configuration depicted.
  
  So I agree that there is a real possibility that the hanging capital could be something that the artist was inspired by, as we seem to have at least two occurences of this form.
  Edit: here are a few examples of the type of architectural elements I had referred to in reference to 11r:
  
  Cluny, France, Chapel ceiling detail, late 15thC.
  
  St Fiacre de Faouet, France, 2nd half of the 15thC
  Henry VII chapel, Westminster Abbey, England

• RE: f82r top: hanging capital?

  -JKP- > 10-10-2017, 09:16 PM

  (10-10-2017, 03:23 PM)VViews Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view....
  In another thread, which I can't seem to locate anymore (did it disappear during the Coventry incident?), Koen Gh and I had discussed the plant on f11r. As you can see, the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. plant seems to show a similar structure, with two arched branches meeting above a suspended leaf. There too, the hanging capital could have been an inspiration for the odd branch configuration depicted.
  
  
  ...

  
  
  There are plants that grow like this. They send out a runner, which forms a leaf, then another runner, another leaf, every two leaves or so, one of them will touch a piece of ground friendly enough in terms of moisture, nutrients, etc., for the leaf to take root and you get this stepcase propagation away from the original plant with all the plants still joined by the stringy runner. Many ground covers grow this way.
  
  But... the VMS being what it is, it wouldn't surprise me if the archway style of the connection were architecturally inspired. Whoever drew the illustrations does seem to have an eye for visual similarity in dissimilar-seeming structures.
  
  The container-like "towers" in the central rosette give one the same impression. They are similar to the small-plant section containers but they are almost like the mini-towers one sees on some buildings (especially those in western Russia) and ambiguous enough that one can't quite tell which one was intended.
  
  
  I suppose the distinction between plants and architecture wasn't as strong in the middle ages as it is now. We don't embellish things the way we used to and almost nothing on buildings is handcrafted any more. In those days, acanthus leaves, vines, flowers, animals, and every other form of natural pattern was routinely sculpted into buildings and furniture.

• RE: f82r top: hanging capital?

  Koen G > 10-10-2017, 10:17 PM

  There is a strong resemblance; I've been looking around a bit, but it's hard to find something similar that's early 15th century. 
  
  One other possibility I've considered for this object is a hanging oil lamp, like the ones you see in orthodox churches. This might explain the blue band as glass, and perhaps the decorative patterns. 
  
  This is a modern image, I have not found much yet on historical models:
  
  
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