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• Auctions & W. Voynich

  voynichbombe > 17-09-2017, 02:36 PM

  This is about antiquarian book auctioning in the timeframe Wilfried was active in. I know very little about auctions in general, and historic antiquarian book auctions specially. The Schoenberg Insitute Database of pre-modern Manuscripts, which is basically a huge and growing collection of entries from all sorts of auction catalogues has an entry about Wilfried Voynich:
  
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  I may be mistaken, but Wilfrieds record struck me a bit strange, if compared to that of H.P. Kraus's (which maybe invalid
  due to the timeframe, so if you'd know any other seller or agent more fitting to compare to, I'd be very glad for a hint).
  
  While Voynich is listed in provenance records probably referring to prior direct sale transactions 388 times, he is listed as selling agent 70 times, only 1 time as a buyer, and ZERO times as a seller.
  
  Does this indicate he didn't own the books he brought to auction, none of them? Does it seem possible to find out about the owner(s)? Also the list of _different individual buyers seems rather short.

• RE: Auctions & W. Voynich

  ReneZ > 18-09-2017, 07:20 AM

  (17-09-2017, 02:36 PM)voynichbombe Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.This is about antiquarian book auctioning in the timeframe Wilfried was active in. I know very little about auctions in general, and historic antiquarian book auctions specially. The Schoenberg Insitute Database of pre-modern Manuscripts, which is basically a huge and growing collection of entries from all sorts of auction catalogues has an entry about Wilfried Voynich:
  
  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
  
  I may be mistaken, but Wilfrieds record struck me a bit strange, if compared to that of H.P. Kraus's (which maybe invalid
  due to the timeframe, so if you'd know any other seller or agent more fitting to compare to, I'd be very glad for a hint).
  
  While Voynich is listed in provenance records probably referring to prior direct sale transactions 388 times, he is listed as selling agent 70 times, only 1 time as a buyer, and ZERO times as a seller.
  
  Does this indicate he didn't own the books he brought to auction, none of them? Does it seem possible to find out about the owner(s)? Also the list of _different individual buyers seems rather short.

  
  The Schoenberg database is only concerned with manuscripts.
  
  That Voynich should forever be associated with a medieval MS is somewhat ironic, since his interest has always been for early printed books. He only became interested in manuscripts at a later stage in his book-selling career. His relatively low "score" in the Schoenberg database is inevitably the result of this.
  
  One can read about his interactions with other book sellers, and his participation in auctions, in several published works about Voynich, primarily:
  - Sowerby, E. Millicent: Rare People and Rare Books. London, Constable, 1967.
  - Hunt, Arnold: Voynich, The Buyer in: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., pp. 11-21.

• RE: Auctions & W. Voynich

  voynichbombe > 18-09-2017, 03:21 PM

  What struck me is that he acted as selling agent for all manuscripts he brought to auction. Never as a seller. 
  In my understanding this means he did not own these manuscripts, but sold them on commission.
  But I could be mistaken, or entries could be missing from the Schoenberg database.
  
  There are a few ironic things in Wilfrieds life, like the accidental sale of the forged "Columbus Landfall" to the British Library in 1904, and the listing of "Politianus, Angelus" in the 1908 catalogue, which presumably contains knowledge about landmasses beyond the ocean predating Columbus return from his journey. But sorry for OT.

• RE: Auctions & W. Voynich

  ReneZ > 18-09-2017, 04:03 PM

  For Voynich and his colleagues / competitors, auctions were more the place to buy books than to sell.
  
  He would have meetings with his competitors prior to these auctions, in order to 'split up' the booty, i.e. agree beforehand who would bid on what, such as not to bid against each other unnecessarily.
  The description of such an event in Sowerby is quite interesting:
  
  "In England we had always been taught that it was not good manners to interrupt others during a conversation, but that we should wait until the speaker had finished before venturing any remarks. The same standard evidently did not prevail on the Continent, for all the visiting dealers talked at once, each trying to shout the others down, yelling sometimes in their native languages and sometimes in broken English. Never was heard such pandemonium, and I know exactly how the tower of Babel must have sounded. It is only fair to Mr. Voynich to say that he could hold his own as far as shouting was concerned, and in any language."
  
  He sold his books mostly to private collectors.
  
  Hunt records that he also was using "stock sharing" arrangements, i.e. finding buyers for other people's books, and make deals with both the seller and the customer.

• RE: Auctions & W. Voynich

  voynichbombe > 02-11-2017, 01:30 AM

  (18-09-2017, 04:03 PM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.For Voynich and his colleagues / competitors, auctions were more the place to buy books than to sell.

  But why then did he buy only one book/manuscript?

• RE: Auctions & W. Voynich

  -JKP- > 02-11-2017, 02:51 AM

  ReneZ wrote: "For Voynich and his colleagues / competitors, auctions were more the place to buy books than to sell."
  
  This is still true today. Book sellers scour auctions, flea markets, attics, etc., and sell their finds at retail whenever possible. The auction crowd is full of bargain hunters and dealers and thus there is only so much they will pay.
  
  It's not a place to make a profit (unless it's a major house like Sothebys which has a different clientelle and also more stringent rules about what they will accept).

• RE: Auctions & W. Voynich

  ReneZ > 02-11-2017, 06:32 AM

  Voynich was well known for buying his stock on the continent, directly from monasteries, libraries and similar collections, at least until 1914 (World War I).
  Only a very small fraction of all this is likely to be recorded in the Schoenberg database.
  After 1914, his business became much more difficult, but he could survive for quite a while because of some of the sales of his jesuit manuscripts.
  
  Also, the Schoenberg database has primarily been populated from catalogues.
  He sold several manuscripts to Kane (like the one you found) and at least one other was from another book dealer and appears in this other dealer's catalogue. I have this information directly from the Princeton curator, and the actual sale does not seem to have been recorded in any auction. This is Kane MS 28, for which  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. .
  (Your entry for the 1 MS he bought cannot be found in this though).
  
  Edit:
  I got a bit curious. The volume could match Kane MS 46, since the first book in this MS is 'Historia Romana'.
  This entry is present in the Schoenberg catalogue in multiple instances, which have been conveniently collected here:
  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
  Note how Voynich is mentioned in only one of them.
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