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Suggestions for decomposition of the Voynichese characters

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• Suggestions for decomposition of the Voynichese characters

• RE: Suggestions for decomposition of the Voynichese characters

  -JKP- > 25-09-2018, 05:20 PM

  Anton, if I remember correctly, it's "gerichtes" with the "is" loop standing in for "es" BUT I have to check because this particular scribe might also use the symbol as a line or paragraph-end marker.
  
  Unfortunately, I have to run, so I can't check the shelf-mark and context until later (I'll post the full clip), but I will find out for you after work.
  

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• RE: Suggestions for decomposition of the Voynichese characters

  -JKP- > 26-09-2018, 01:11 PM

  Here's the context for the "is"-loop clip:
  
     
  
  Notice also the "smoke" apostrophe in v[er]boden, which is sometimes written like smoke, and sometimes like a curved macron (but means the same thing... scribes tend to pick one or the other, although I've seen a few scripts that randomly mix the two styles. In really old manuscripts, the "smoke" apostrophe is sometimes written as l).

• RE: Suggestions for decomposition of the Voynichese characters

  Helmut Winkler > 26-09-2018, 04:29 PM

  This is no is-abbr., it is just a decorative loop (similar to the etc. I mentioned some time ago) It is 'an daz gericht' an acc., 'gerichtes' would be a gen.

• RE: Suggestions for decomposition of the Voynichese characters

  Anton > 26-09-2018, 07:30 PM

  Thank you JKP, but what's the abbreviation here? I'm failing to recognize the text in full, but I think this is something about the court (Gericht).  Would not "an das Gericht" be the correct phrasing, and not "an das Gerichtes"?
  
  EDIT: Thx Helmut, I should have renewed the browser page to see your reply!

• RE: Suggestions for decomposition of the Voynichese characters

  -JKP- > 27-09-2018, 01:01 AM

  That's why I mentioned in Post #31 that I had to check the original to find out if it was the "-is" loop (standing in for "-es") or if it was a paragraph or line marker. It was used both ways.
  
  This is something I've mentioned in other threads because it's hauntingly similar to the way m or g shows up in the VMS. Some scribes used the "-is" abbreviation both as a linguistic suffix and as an "end" marker for lines or paragraphs (especially in German manuscripts).
  
  
  So, you think it would be easy to spot which one is intended, but medieval spelling is so inconsistent (and often ungrammatical), that I frequently have to go back to the original to check. When I gather samples, I try to find the ones that are unambiguous, where there's enough context to know for absolute certain which one it is, but that's not possible 100% of the time.

• RE: Suggestions for decomposition of the Voynichese characters

  Anton > 27-09-2018, 01:05 PM

  Quote:Some scribes used the "-is" abbreviation both as a linguistic suffix and as an "end" marker for lines or paragraphs (especially in German manuscripts).

  
  Hmm, if something of the sort is going on in the VMS, it makes it even more complicated.

• RE: Suggestions for decomposition of the Voynichese characters

  -JKP- > 27-09-2018, 01:16 PM

  I agree, Anton. I don't know if that is what is happening, but if it is, it will muck up the statistical analyses. But that's how they did things in the Middle Ages, so... it's possible.

• RE: Suggestions for decomposition of the Voynichese characters

  Koen G > 27-09-2018, 01:56 PM

  It would make it a whole lot easier to explain LAAFU effects though.

• RE: Suggestions for decomposition of the Voynichese characters

  -JKP- > 27-09-2018, 02:15 PM

  What happened to my post with all the in-context examples?
  
  Wow, I thought maybe it somehow got posted to another thread, but it simply vanished. How is that possible? I edited it about four times (each time to add more pics). I don't even know how to delete a post.

• RE: Suggestions for decomposition of the Voynichese characters

  Koen G > 27-09-2018, 02:50 PM

  I checked the Mod. control panel but there's nothing out of the ordinary, the most recent mod actions happened last week and con't concern this thread. There are also no "soft deleted" posts in this thread as far as I can see.
  
  IIRC there is a box you can check to delete the post you're editing, so maybe that happened by accident? Otherwise it must be some bug.
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