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[split] Those Scribbles

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• [split] Those Scribbles

• RE: [split] Those Scribbles

  Linda > 28-06-2020, 04:17 PM

  (28-06-2020, 02:48 PM)RobGea Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I had a play with the scribbles on f86v3 across the TOmap and JKP's suggestion of a childs scribbles seems the best so far.
  Perhaps i spent too many hours looking but it  looks like multiple signatures, a repeated pattern of english 'W.R' 4-5 times on the top line, maybe one 'WR' near the end of the 2nd line.
  Did children practice their signatures then? Was a signature a thing back then?

  
  I agree, initials. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. also seems to have WR going on, especially at the end, and both pages are the backs of quires. This makes me think this happened after the quires were made, while they were laying face down on a desk or table.

• RE: [split] Those Scribbles

  -JKP- > 28-06-2020, 07:20 PM

  (28-06-2020, 02:48 PM)RobGea Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
  ...Was a signature a thing back then?

  
  
  
  Yes, people had to sign legal documents (deeds of property, inheritance, trade deals, etc.). They also signed letters.
  
  Since only a percentage of the population was literate, some people signed with an X. But if they were literate and had money, a scribe would write the letter and the person dictating it would usually sign it (although I think there were exceptions to this). In Spain an interesting monogram was usually also included on legal papers, each person with a distinction drawing. Other places had monograms, but in Spain they were especially popular.

• RE: [split] Those Scribbles

  Helmut Winkler > 21-07-2020, 08:05 AM

  (28-06-2020, 07:20 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

  (28-06-2020, 02:48 PM)RobGea Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
  ...Was a signature a thing back then?

  
  
  
  Yes, people had to sign legal documents (deeds of property, inheritance, trade deals, etc.). They also signed letters.
  
  Since only a percentage of the population was literate, some people signed with an X. But if they were literate and had money, a scribe would write the letter and the person dictating it would usually sign it (although I think there were exceptions to this). In Spain an interesting monogram was usually also included on legal papers, each person with a distinction drawing. Other places had monograms, but in Spain they were especially popular.

  
  At the time they used seals, not signatures, if you did not have your own seal, you let some institution seal the doccument

• RE: [split] Those Scribbles

  -JKP- > 21-07-2020, 09:27 AM

  Helmut, you're correct, seals were used on documents (sometimes several on a single document).
  
  Monograms (a form of legal signature) were also popular in some regions.
  
  An example of a notary signature and monogram 'seal':
  
  
  Courtesy of Wikiwand
  
  
  Here is the papered seal and signature of Henry VII on a letter that may have been about trade agreements:
  
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  A written signature, just as we use now, was used on some kinds of documents, like treaties and agreements in which many people were involved.
  
  Here is an example of signatures added to the Bull from the Council of Florence (1439):
  
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• RE: [split] Those Scribbles

  Koen G > 22-08-2020, 11:14 PM

  A quick question about the area ruined by the scribbles. The dots on top op the bottom-left "pillar" don't form an even flow. It looks as if the outer dots outline a specific shape, though it takes some getting used to ignoring the scribbles. What do you guys make of this?
  
     

• RE: [split] Those Scribbles

  -JKP- > 23-08-2020, 06:14 AM

  There are definitely two patterns of dots, and it does look like a somewhat V-shape.
  
  Not sure what it represents or if something was intended to go in the V.

• RE: [split] Those Scribbles

  DONJCH > 23-08-2020, 06:40 AM

  Perhaps originally intended to be something like this but then altered
  
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• RE: [split] Those Scribbles

  -JKP- > 23-08-2020, 06:52 AM

  Or unfinished, since the circle in the middle of 86v is strangely bare except for the T-in-O lines.

• RE: [split] Those Scribbles

  Koen G > 23-08-2020, 02:59 PM

  First I thought they had done that to accommodate for the scribbles, which would have indicated that those where there first. But this does not seem to be the case, the scribbles and the image don't really take each other into account.
  
  So the emissions really come out in this sort of forked shape. Moreover, the outside dots form a clear outline.
  
  Is the TO-circle part of the original design or a later addition? The scribbles seem to ignore it as well.

• RE: [split] Those Scribbles

  Linda > 23-08-2020, 07:17 PM

  I believe this page discusses changing geology over time, and this particular design may add the idea of ancient sea creatures (denoted by a fish tail design, but referencing microscopic life, ie the dots) contributing to the formation of sedimentary rock, either by compression of their remains or by bacterial actions within the rocks to form caves etc. Or perhaps it even shows that these processes likely contributed to the existence and evolution of life on earth as we know it, by making available the minerals within.
  
  Some ancient geographers have noted the finding of shells and fossils in mountains and other places where they are hard to explain.
  
  I think the narrative is counterclockwise, that we are meant to look at each drawing from the corners, and may even be meant to repeat. The bird with the tree is the current state, but it could all blow up and start over, nothing is permanent.
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