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• [split] f43v

• RE: [split] f43v

  Linda > 19-03-2017, 11:37 PM

  (09-03-2017, 07:56 PM)Koen Gh. Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Apparently dried teasels were (and sometimes still are) used for "raising the nap" on woolen fabrics - part of the manufacturing process.
  
  
  
  An interesting side note is that the wool was made wet beforehand, which might be the reason for the strange color used in the root.
  
  So I would most definitely prefer a type of teasel that was used in the manufacture of fabrics.
  
  This also points to some thematic grouping, since the plant to its left is cotton.

  
  How is the plant to its left cotton? I don't see the resemblence

• RE: [split] f43v

  Linda > 19-03-2017, 11:56 PM

  I was just reading here You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. that the leaves were called labrum Veneris or Venus's lips. Some called it Venus' basin. To me the shape is like looking at the inside part of the leaf, not all of the leaf. and the edges could be pointing inward to indicate what's inside, which is usually rainwater.
  
  from PFAF:
  
  Teasel is little used in modern herbalism, and its therapeutic effects are disputed[254]. Traditionally it has been used to treat conditions such as warts, fistulae (abnormal passages opening through the skin) and cancerous sores[254]. The root is diaphoretic, diuretic and stomachic[7]. An infusion is said to strengthen the stomach, create an appetite, remove obstructions of the liver and treat jaundice[4, 254]. The root is harvested in early autumn and dried for later use[7]. An infusion of the leaves has been used as a wash to treat acne[257]. The plant has a folk history of use in the treatment of cancer, an ointment made from the roots is used to treat warts, wens and whitlows[4, 218]. A homeopathic remedy is made from the flowering plant[7]. It is used in the treatment of skin diseases[7].
  Other Uses
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  A blue dye obtained from the dried plant is an indigo substitute[74]. It is water soluble[74]. A yellow is obtained when the plant is mixed with alum[148]. Teasels are also occasionally grown as ornamental plants, and the dried heads are used in floristry. The seeds are an important winter food resource for some birds, notably the European goldfinch. Teasels are often grown in gardens and encouraged on some nature reserves to attract them. A rich source of pollen and nectar for bees and other insects. Formerly widely used in textile processing, providing a natural comb for cleaning, aligning and raising the nap on fabrics, particularly wool.

• RE: [split] f43v

  Diane > 20-03-2017, 04:23 AM

  Just for form's sake
  
  After having done the full survey, isolated consistent stylistic habits etc.etc. and identified about forty folios' worth with all the usual literary, comparative and historical matter, I felt I could do one without all that, though it does mean that the treatment of 43v - while using the results of that earlier work - doesn't (this time) follow standard analytical method point by point. 
  
  On its own it will seem a bit arbitrary, I know. So... just for the record:
  
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• RE: [split] f43v

  -JKP- > 20-03-2017, 09:46 AM

  I sometimes wonder if the bumpy texture could symbolize wool and the curled over parts are lamb's tails and ears.
  
  

• RE: [split] f43v

  MarcoP > 20-03-2017, 10:50 AM

  (20-03-2017, 09:46 AM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I sometimes wonder if the bumpy texture could symbolize wool and the curled over parts are lamb's tails and ears.
  
  

  
  Hi JKP, this illustration seems completely naturalistic to me. In particular, the curling also appears in later scientific illustrations, like that in the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. you included in your first post: I find it simpler to think of it as a feature of the plant. Same for the blue flowers: since teasel flowers are often bluish, I guess the blue color could have been meant to illustrate that.

• RE: [split] f43v

  -JKP- > 20-03-2017, 11:40 AM

  I should mention there's one other plant that is sometimes depicted this way, with stalks branching in threes and upturned leaves (it's not always drawn with upturned leaves) and that is Centaurium erythraea.
  
  But... it doesn't fit as well as teasel because Centaurium's seed heads are small and narrow and not bumpy like those of teasel, and the roots of Centaurium are quite modest.

• RE: [split] f43v

  Koen G > 23-03-2017, 11:11 AM

  Cod. Guelf. 29.14. Aug 4º
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  A copy of Michael Scot's work, shows one of the three wise men holding a cup shaped much like these leaves. Might one of the substances they brought have been linked to this shape of container? Or is this a general type of "eastern" chalice?
  
     

• RE: [split] f43v

  Koen G > 13-01-2019, 08:00 PM

  Just adding to this thread, a "cardeur de laine":
  
  

• RE: [split] f43v

  Koen G > 13-01-2019, 08:46 PM

  Here's another one, from: Mendel I - Amb. 317.2° c. 1425 
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• RE: [split] f43v

  Helmut Winkler > 13-01-2019, 08:49 PM

  (19-03-2017, 11:01 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I still agree as well that teasel is a good candidate. Nice examples, Linda.
  
  The only thing that might really seal the deal is to find an explanation for the shape of the leaves. I'm going to see if I can trace the outlines tomorrow. 
  
  The only difference in leaf shape is really the curl on the.points. I feel like I've seen such a shape before but can't quite remember. Some kind of oil lamp or burner? It could be some ornamental cup or dish as previously suggested, though no idea what that could mean. 
  Was teasel used for other things than combing?

  
  Plinius, Nat. Hist. 27,71 gives some medical use
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