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• Discussion of the Konstellations

• RE: Discussion of the Konstellations

  Koen G > 11-12-2016, 09:18 AM

  Yes, weaving, or mostly spinning, appears to be a thread (  ) through a number of folios. I analyzed this in some more depth in a blog post draft but never got around to finishing it. I'll have to revise it anyway in the light of some suggestions made in the "Thing" thread.
  
  Example #3: Gemini
  
  Still sticking to the Zodiac constellations, this one is fairly straightforward again.
  
  
  
  Two figures holding arms, on top of three parallel lines. The three lines represent the ecliptic and the outer boundaries of the Zodiac band. This convention can be seen in celestial globes like the Farnese Atlas and the Mainz Globe (image).
  
  
  
  Also note on the Mainz Globe how the constellations have a number of stars placed in them. I believe that the dots on the VM pattern evoke the constellations in much the same way. 
  
  The human figures represent Ceyx and Alcyone saying goodbye. Still, the pose is very close to that of many Gemini depictions:
  
  
  As I stated in the previous example, as a rule the base on which the figures stand always refers to the constellation layer. In this case, they hint at the primary attributes of the mythical Twins: Castor and Pollux with their caps:
  
  

• RE: Discussion of the Konstellations

  Koen G > 11-12-2016, 04:40 PM

  As is bound to happen with a work in progress, I made a mistake already. Virgo is actually on f80r, where it makes a lot more sense. The analysis of the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. figure remains the same, but it refers to another constellation associated with Aphrodite.
  
  

• RE: Discussion of the Konstellations

  Koen G > 12-12-2016, 09:25 PM

  So, I don't know if anyone cares or is still following this, but this is what happened.
  
  With my initial ID for Virgo, I recognized Aphrodite cues, and from Aphrodite I went to Virgo. Makes sense, in a way. But apparently I was supposed to go from Aphrodite to Cygnus. I'll have to look into this some more, and also the extent to which Aphrodite was identified with Leda and so on.
  
  Anyway, what got me doubting was the following. I found all constellations around the nymph in the image below, and, again leaving out the details for now, everything pointed towards her being Virgo instead of the one on the other folio.
  
  So long story made short, I knew that this nymph was supposed to represent Virgo, I just didn't see how.
  In the mythological narrative she represents Philomela bound and about to have her tongue ripped out with the tweezers she's holding. So the object itself is correct, but the fact that she is holding it instead of her assailant is strange. This means that the overall composition is dictated by the constellation layer. I first thought she referred to Cancer because of the "claw", but that simply makes no sense in the overall composition. She has to be Virgo.
  
  
  
  So the question is: how does this nymph bring to mind the image of Virgo?

• RE: Discussion of the Konstellations

  Searcher > 13-12-2016, 12:32 AM

  Koen, I can suggest you You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. 
  Sorry, it doesn't relate to constellations, I just couldn't restrain myself. They are so nice!

• RE: Discussion of the Konstellations

  -JKP- > 13-12-2016, 08:51 AM

  (12-12-2016, 09:25 PM)Koen Gh. Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view....
  
  
  
  So the question is: how does this nymph bring to mind the image of Virgo?

  
  Virgo --> virgin ---> clothed in a skirt from the waste down.
  
  The pincers, I don't know. The image of Virgo is often shown holding the Libra scales, but those look more like calipers or pincers than scales.

• RE: Discussion of the Konstellations

  ReneZ > 13-12-2016, 11:10 AM

  I would make a bid for Taurus:
  
  1) The 'pincers' are the bull's horns
  2) The poke in the eye is the 'bullseye', i.e. the big red star aldebaran
  3) The lower part of the body, hidden by some cloudy fabric, refers to the common way to depict Taurus as only half a bull:
  
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• RE: Discussion of the Konstellations

  Koen G > 13-12-2016, 01:52 PM

  JKP and Rene! I really appreciate you guys replying and trying to help me out a bit.
  
  I believe this folio to be an "ecliptic" folio, that is, all figures on it are found on the ecliptic. The three parallel lines are a hint at that: they are a convention to denote the ecliptic in the middle, and the outer limits of the zodiac belt on the sides. In Medieval manuscripts, the middle line, i.e. the actual ecliptic, is often omitted, leaving only the Zodiac belt.
  
  The pincers could indeed symbolize many things: the claws of the crab or scorpion, or the bull's horns like you say. However, there is not a single one that explains the way they are held. Virgo is often seen in this pose, though, either with scales like JKP says, or with a specific form of Spica.
  
  
  
  The figure on the right is from Boulogne, Bibliothèque Municipale → 188, fol. 22r, which is closely related to the famous Leiden Aratea. Unfortunately, the Virgo from the Leiden MS is lost.
  
  You can also see that I've colored the VM figure's "wings" in yellow. You can compare it to the original and see that they are subtly hinted at. Also, of course, Virgo's flowing dress and even the belt in the middle.
  Edit: I've also noticed that the hand on the right is often in the same pose - would that be a gesture of "modesty"?
  
  
  A final thing that pointed me towards Virgo is that the pair of figures across the page from her symbolize Pisces, and Virgo and Pisces are opposites on the Zodiac circle.
  
  As a side note, the Boulogne figure is very interesting because it is the best parallel for the "head roll" hair style I have found so far.
  
  

• RE: Discussion of the Konstellations

  R. Sale > 13-12-2016, 05:53 PM

  It's all a bit too mythical for me. When I saw the image in post #12, my first thought was Leda and the swan, but certain things were off. For some reason, the lady looks too 'Greek' to me, so I wondered if the story of Leda had a Greek counterpart. Most Roman myths do, but I can't say for sure on this particular one. But maybe this works out.
  
  And the bird clearly does not look like a swan, much too short in the neck. Maybe it was Leda and the snow goose. Snow geese are white and, being geese, they have a neck much more similar to the illustration. What's interesting to note is the way the feathers are drawn. What are the origins of this piece?
  
  However, it is the comparison of hairdos that I see as quite similar. Is this a style that is widely represented in various images? Or does it offer some information that suggests certain times and locations? What is the origin of that image?

• RE: Discussion of the Konstellations

  Koen G > 13-12-2016, 09:15 PM

  R Sale: about the hairdos, do you mean the "roll on head"? Remarkable, isn't it. I must say I've been looking for parallels quite some time, but only by coincidence bumped into this image when researching Virgo.
  
  There are some kinds of "hits" one can only appreciate after having had a lot of "near hits". This is why sometimes evidence will look stronger to the researcher who presents it, than it does to others. He has looked all around and knows how exceptionally strong the match is.
  
  Now, to get to the point, and also to the heart of how I think the transmission of VM imagery went more or less. This Boulogne manuscript is a decent copy of the Leiden Aratea or a common ancestor. Unfortunately the Virgo folio from the Leiden Aratea is missing, but we know it would have looked much like this. It is known that these manuscripts, like most or even all medieval Aratea manuscripts, go back on older sources. The Leiden Aratea is believed to have been copied from a fourth century manuscript (see Marion Dolan's work), which is just awesome.
  
  So what these manuscripts do is show us an early medieval version of much older sources. And Aratea manuscripts were still being copied after MS Beinecke 408 was made. But basically I think we see in this section of the VM is somewhat similar ancient material brought to us through the pens of medieval scribes. Only, this tradition is not attested anywhere else, and may have existed in parallel with, or before, or after, the origins of the Aratea tradition.
  
  The woman on the goose is Aphrodite, to whom geese were sacred. The image itself is too old to be of direct relevance, but it does show the relevant iconographic associations. (And I find it absolutely beautiful )
  I should really investigate this in more depth before posting more about it. The problem is that there's a cluster of winged constellations there: Cygnus, the Eagle and the Horse (which is often Pegasus). I checked Hyginus - who also remained popular - and he writes:
  
  "Cygnus: The sign the Greeks call the Swan, but others, out of ignorance of the story, have called it ornis, the general term for bird. This reason for the name has been handed down: When Jupiter, moved by desire, had begun to love Nemesis, and couldn’t persuade her to lie with him, he relieved his passion by the following plan. He bade Venus [Aphrodite], in the form of an eagle, pursue him; he, changed to a swan, as if in flight from the eagle, took refuge with Nemesis and lighted in her lap. Nemesis did not thrust him away, but holding him in her arms, fell into a deep sleep. While she slept, Jupiter embraced her, and then flew away. Because he was seen by men flying high in the sky, they said he was put in the stars. To make this really true, Jupiter put the swan flying and the eagle pursuing in the sky. "
  
  In this version Aphrodite is one of the bird constellations. So when I picked up on the Aphrodite imagery, I should have taken it as a reference to the Eagle or perhaps Cygnus. I'll have to study it more.
  
  But anyway - studying the medieval Aratea illustrations in some detail had taught me that Greco-Roman illustrations did find their way into the middle ages quite a lot. In fact the constellations tradition is often cited as an example of this. That is why I'm open to the possibility that Hellenistic art can, to some extent, explain Voynich images.
  
  

• RE: Discussion of the Konstellations

  Linda > 13-12-2016, 11:22 PM

  (13-12-2016, 09:15 PM)Koen Gh. Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view....
  
   This Boulogne manuscript is a decent copy of the Leiden Aratea or a common ancestor. Unfortunately the Virgo folio from the Leiden Aratea is missing, but we know it would have looked much like this. It is known that these manuscripts, like most or even all medieval Aratea manuscripts, go back on older sources. The Leiden Aratea is believed to have been copied from a fourth century manuscript (see Marion Dolan's work), which is just awesome.

  
  the Boulogne 188 and Bern 88, which followed the Boulogne version's corrections about a century later, came from a common ancestor, or else the Boulogne version had an addition from another source, as both contain text that the original version of Leiden didn't, it was updated a few centuries later to include those lines. All three contain similarities in their art, although as you say the Leiden Virgo is lost. Bern 88 has the roll on the head too, timing of that one is about 1000 years ago, but probably based on the original Leiden art from at least 150 years earlier, which could also have been copied from an older source.
  
  This link has info on various versions, including pics.
  
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