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• f82v: those rainbows

• RE: f82v: those rainbows

  Koen G > 10-12-2016, 11:32 AM

  VViews: I agree that there is a definite parallel with Christ's double rainbow chair. But if that image is meant, and we assume that the person who conceived this image was absolutely surrounded by images of Jesus, then why omit the most important part?
  
  It's a good idea comparing the three images, and it is possible indeed that some philosophical-"scientific" exposition about rainbows is meant. We see depositing water in the double rainbow, absorbing water in the second image, and transferring water in the "tube".
  
  I also find it puzzling that the one rainbow has different colors than the double rainbow   Red-Yellow vs blue-green. Very special. Might this point to some specific theory or source text?
  
  Linda: I like your way of thinking and I obviously agree that the source imagery was older than the 15th century. In many occasions, I get the impression that the images skipped a millennium of development before they ended up in our 15th century manuscript. However, so far I haven't had any reason to look much further than the Hellenistic period. A "remote" Egyptian culture seems very likely, since there are traces of Egyptianness but not in the way one would expect of a "pharaonic" product. 
  
  The question of myths like "the great flood", which occur in different cultures, having their base in reality is a tricky one which I'm afraid lies too deep into the speculative realm to be of much use here.  But one can surely make a point that some illustrations may refer to "great flood" stories

• RE: f82v: those rainbows

  VViews > 10-12-2016, 01:01 PM

  Koen Gh:
  "why omit the most important part?": IMO this is probably because that is not the most important part. I just think the double rainbow would have reminded a medieval person of that imagery, but I don't think that it is the subject matter. 
  
  As for the colors... what is odd here is that the colors in the two rainbows are in the same order. In an actual double rainbow, the colors are mirrored. This had obviously been observed in nature for a long time, and theorized since Aristotle.
  Theodoric of Freiberg also writes quite a bit about the formation of double rainbows and explaining why the color reversal happens. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. provides a really comprehensive history of the understanding of rainbows (page 325 onwards).
  
  Personallly I don't generally give the Voynich manuscript colors much attention; I think whoever added them couldn't understand Voynichese, and was less able/educated than the person(s) who wrote the text and drew the illustrations. 
  But if we suppose that the person who added the colors did understand the text, then the question of why the rainbows have different colors might be worth pursuing.
  
  "On the other hand, the difference of the colors of a rainbow from those of other rainbows is due to the purity and impurity of the transparent medium supporting it, as well as from the brightness and obscurity of the light impressing it. If we have a pure transparent medium and bright light, the color is whitish. If the recipient medium is a mixture of vapors and mist and the light is hazy, as occurs near the East and West, the colors are less splendid and their brightness reduced. In the same manner, according to the enumeration of brightness and obscurity of light and of purity and impurity of the medium, all the arcs of various colors can be seen." (Grosseteste, De Iride)

• RE: f82v: those rainbows

  -JKP- > 10-12-2016, 01:31 PM

  Just as there was clearly more than one scribe, I think there was also more than one person painting the images.
  
  One person was pretty careful and methodical (and mixed colors in a naturalistic way for some of the large-plant drawings), another slopped paint on as though it were an unwelcome chore and wanted to get on with something else and... who knows, perhaps a third person (in-between quality) was involved. If there were two, as I'm pretty sure there were, then there may have been more than two.
  
  In folio You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. think it's noteworthy that the red/yellow colors are at the top and the blue/green at the bottom. That doesn't appear arbitrary.

• RE: f82v: those rainbows

  Searcher > 10-12-2016, 03:46 PM

  (09-12-2016, 11:45 PM)VViews Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I think we have to also take into account that there is another rainbow on this folio, represented at the top of the page, which to me really echoes the idea that rainbows are formed on the side of clouds, expressed in Ovide Moralisé:
  
  

  
  Hi!
  
  In You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
  Haec quoque dixit Deus ad Noe et ad filios eius cum eo: "Ecce ego statuam pactum meum vobiscum et cum semine vestro post vos et ad omnem animam viventem, quae est vobiscum tam in volucribus quam in iumentis et in omnibus bestiis terrae, quae sunt vobiscum, cunctis, quae egressa sunt de arca, universis bestiis terrae. Statuam pactum meum vobiscum; et nequaquam ultra interficietur omnis caro aquis diluvii, neque erit deinceps diluvium dissipans terram." Dixitque Deus: “Hoc signum foederis, quod do inter me et vos et ad omnem animam viventem, quae est vobiscum, in generationes sempiternas: arcum meum ponam in nubibus, et erit signum foederis inter me et inter terram. Cumque obduxero nubibus caelum, apparebit arcus meus in nubibus, et recordabor foederis mei vobiscum et cum omni anima vivente, quae carnem vegetat; et non erunt ultra aquae diluvii ad delendum universam carnem. Eritque arcus in nubibus, et videbo illum et recordabor foederis sempiterni, quod pactum est inter Deum et omnem animam viventem universae carnis, quae est super terram." Dixitque Deus ad You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.: “Hoc erit signum foederis, quod constitui inter me et omnem carnem super terram”. (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. 9:8–17)
  
  It is in Latin, but you can translate it with Google. I want to say that the rainbow in clouds doesn't contradict the biblical story.
  As Linda said: 
  
  

  Quote:The religious connotations noted by Searcher I think could be involved insofar as they might be part of the culture of the copyist(s)...

  I'm not sure that the images and the text in the VMs has a religious context, but, no doubt, Christian culture could be reflected in scribe's imagery, as, for example, it is reflected in many alchemical works (The book of the Holy Trinity, etc.) At the same time, we see the difference from alchemical rainbows, since in alchemy  "the phase of the many colors was also symbolized by the rainbow", but the VMs rainbows obviously could mean or a few processes, either different stages of one process which signified in different combinations of colours for every separate rainbow. So, the rainbow in alchemy means many different colours and usually relates to the goddess of the rainbow: Iris, the messenger of the gods, especially between Zeus and the mortals. 
  It seems (not surprising) that the author had his personal vision, maybe, using some prevailing forms in unusual combinations and versions, whatever they might mean here.

• RE: f82v: those rainbows

  -JKP- > 10-12-2016, 06:04 PM

  Speaking of possible double meanings... I found out something today that I didn't know.
  
  In the 15th century, in at least a few areas, bath towels were very long and narrow, exactly like scarves, with fringes on the end. I don't know how widespread this shape was, but since everything was made by hand, not mass-manufactured, weavers may have used the same looms to make both towels and scarves.

• RE: f82v: those rainbows

  Linda > 10-12-2016, 06:46 PM

  I thought this one was interesting. Has similar horns to the "zodiac" bull, has a similar lion and ram, eating from bushes... nebuly lines...
  
  Detail of a miniature from the 14th-century manuscript known as the “Egerton Genesis Picture Book”, picturing the Fifth day of Creation, with God creating animals, including a monkey, a deer, a bear, and a lion — You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. Egerton 1894 f. 1v Detail
  
  Maybe the rainbows suggest worlds under god, or maybe smaller versions thereof, various cultures or empires perhaps and their respective deities, similar to how the nebulous rosettes may also be representative of cultural evolution of ideas across time and space.
  
  
  
  
  
  maybe the colour differences reflect this idea of same but different?
  
  hey could this one be a rainbow too?
  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
  from my interpretation of the location this would be the Caucasus, one of the "pillars of the world" in greek mythology
  
  how about this one:
  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
  I have this one listed as representing Crete may refer to the Minoan culture oldest of Europe

• RE: f82v: those rainbows

  juergenw > 10-12-2016, 06:54 PM

  (10-12-2016, 11:32 AM)Koen Gh. Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I also find it puzzling that the one rainbow has different colors than the double rainbow   Red-Yellow vs blue-green. Very special. Might this point to some specific theory or source text?

  
  In my above quoted source (Aristotle's Meteorologica) there is some mentioning of rainbows, the colours ( and how these come into appearance, reflections etc). I attach a jpg with a relevant comparison of the top/red coloured rainbow with the relevant text source (Met 375b1-4). Interesting that the red coloured one is the outermost band.
  
     
  
  There is more on colour (and the difference, existence, mixture etc in the subsequent text - and there are more text sources in Meteorologica (again, the above quoted article is a great source)

• RE: f82v: those rainbows

  Linda > 10-12-2016, 06:54 PM

  (10-12-2016, 06:04 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Speaking of possible double meanings... I found out something today that I didn't know.
  
  In the 15th century, in at least a few areas, bath towels were very long and narrow, exactly like scarves, with fringes on the end. I don't know how widespread this shape was, but since everything was made by hand, not mass-manufactured, weavers may have used the same looms to make both towels and scarves.

  
  weaving...maybe another metaphor like the spindles, as a length of time, a realm perhaps...the tapestry of life insofar as whatever the rainbow band is encompassing?
  
  reminds me of a song: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

• RE: f82v: those rainbows

  Linda > 10-12-2016, 07:00 PM

  (10-12-2016, 06:54 PM)juergenw Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

  (10-12-2016, 11:32 AM)Koen Gh. Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I also find it puzzling that the one rainbow has different colors than the double rainbow   Red-Yellow vs blue-green. Very special. Might this point to some specific theory or source text?

  
  In my above quoted source (Aristotle's Meteorologica) there is some mentioning of rainbows, the colours ( and how these come into appearance, reflections etc). I attach a jpg with a relevant comparison of the top/red coloured rainbow with the relevant text source (Met 375b1-4). Interesting that the red coloured one is the outermost band.
  
  
  
  There is more on colour (and the difference, existence, mixture etc in the subsequent text - and there are more text sources in Meteorologica (again, the above quoted article is a great source)

  
  Hi Juergen,
  
  I just found this one from Turkey
  
  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

• RE: f82v: those rainbows

  Searcher > 10-12-2016, 07:26 PM

  It is interesting that "in tarot, the 14th trump card, Temperance, is often depicted as an Angel (mostly, female) who mixes fire and water (or one cup has the white elixir and the other -  the red elixir in alchemical interpreation.) into a vessel which then pours forth a Rainbow. In some decks, including the Crowley Thoth deck, Temperance is replaced (or reinterpreted) by the Art card. Crowley was himself something of an artist and many of his groups of associates and friends as well as he had little use for Temperance but religious devotion to Art, so the transposition suggests. Since the Rainbow is the basis of the Artist's palate, it makes magical sense to correspond the two. As in the nature of the Rainbow, the Temperance Angel combines the pure elemental essences of Fire (light) and Water (the drop of cloud vapor) to create the Rainbow. This would explain why even older interpretations of the Tarot do not give Temperance the modern day definition of purity and restraint, but rather one of transformation by way of alchemy, the perfect combination of elements. One element in the right proportion perfectly tempers another to create a thing of beauty. The Temperance Angel is often depicted standing next to iris flowers, reinforcing its association or equivalence with the Goddess Iris."
  
   
  
  
  
  
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