Wherefore art thou, aberil?
#76
(10-06-2025, 09:48 AM)Koen G wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I put some of the locations from You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. I mentioned before on a map (very likely containing mistakes), and this is what I got for Octembre:

(I repeat, this is likely to contain mistakes and would need to be checked).

That kind of matches what I was reading about the Occitan/Swiss/Rhine corridor re Aberil. 

Today I saw Edith Sherwood's post about Leonardo da Vinci's birth notice being marked "Abr."  for April in 1452. It was evidently his grandfather who wrote it, who was a retired notary, so short forms were the norm for him, likely an older habit also. This may or may not have abbreviated the e, as it is abbreviated in the vms also. But this extends the 'b' usage further to the southeast than I had been thinking previously, Vinci being located between Pisa and Florence. It seems Leonardo himself used the Italian 'Aprile'. His grandfather was born and lived in Tuscany also, so the Abr. usage is likely more to do with the shorthand he used in his work as a notary. But the vms version is not fully cut off, so that seems more like a native speaker's usage.
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[Image: 1_1_ASF_Notarile_Antecosimiano_16912_105v.jpg]

[Image: figure10.jpg]

I also saw a few mappings like this one for greater Occitania which includes Catalonia. 
[Image: https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.ama...04x600.png]

This seems interesting to me because it represents the shoreline that I see on f80r, but to which the vms adds the area of the Ligurian shore that you can still see on this map, which coincidentally ends at about Pisa. Could it have been outlining their version of a greater Occitania at the time? Which could be why Northern regions are included also? It also strikes me that Genoan sailors would come across this language in their travels, so perhaps there was also a pidgin type language amongst sailors that would spread it out even further.

Another reason it was interesting to me is that it includes the Balearic Islands, and I have recently noted Majorcan portolan chart similarities with quire 13.
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Messages In This Thread
Wherefore art thou, aberil? - by R. Sale - 08-06-2025, 08:05 PM
RE: Wherefore art thou, aberil? - by oshfdk - 08-06-2025, 09:10 PM
RE: Wherefore art thou, aberil? - by nablator - 08-06-2025, 09:37 PM
RE: Wherefore art thou, aberil? - by oshfdk - 08-06-2025, 09:32 PM
RE: Wherefore art thou, aberil? - by oshfdk - 09-06-2025, 08:13 PM
RE: Wherefore art thou, aberil? - by nablator - 08-06-2025, 10:39 PM
RE: Wherefore art thou, aberil? - by R. Sale - 08-06-2025, 11:56 PM
RE: Wherefore art thou, aberil? - by MarcoP - 09-06-2025, 06:54 AM
RE: Wherefore art thou, aberil? - by Koen G - 09-06-2025, 09:10 AM
RE: Wherefore art thou, aberil? - by ReneZ - 09-06-2025, 10:19 AM
RE: Wherefore art thou, aberil? - by Dana Scott - 04-02-2026, 12:05 PM
RE: Wherefore art thou, aberil? - by quimqu - 09-06-2025, 10:21 AM
RE: Wherefore art thou, aberil? - by R. Sale - 09-06-2025, 06:37 PM
RE: Wherefore art thou, aberil? - by MarcoP - 10-06-2025, 06:50 AM
RE: Wherefore art thou, aberil? - by Koen G - 10-06-2025, 06:57 AM
RE: Wherefore art thou, aberil? - by ReneZ - 10-06-2025, 07:36 AM
RE: Wherefore art thou, aberil? - by Koen G - 10-06-2025, 08:37 AM
RE: Wherefore art thou, aberil? - by nablator - 10-06-2025, 08:48 AM
RE: Wherefore art thou, aberil? - by ReneZ - 10-06-2025, 08:56 AM
RE: Wherefore art thou, aberil? - by Koen G - 10-06-2025, 09:09 AM
RE: Wherefore art thou, aberil? - by nablator - 10-06-2025, 09:09 AM
RE: Wherefore art thou, aberil? - by Koen G - 10-06-2025, 09:48 AM
RE: Wherefore art thou, aberil? - by Linda - 02-05-2026, 08:37 PM
RE: Wherefore art thou, aberil? - by DG97EEB - 02-05-2026, 09:42 PM
RE: Wherefore art thou, aberil? - by ReneZ - 10-06-2025, 10:39 AM
RE: Wherefore art thou, aberil? - by nablator - 10-06-2025, 10:54 AM
RE: Wherefore art thou, aberil? - by ReneZ - 10-06-2025, 12:35 PM
RE: Wherefore art thou, aberil? - by Jorge_Stolfi - 12-06-2025, 06:15 AM
RE: Wherefore art thou, aberil? - by Mauro - 12-06-2025, 12:38 PM
RE: Wherefore art thou, aberil? - by R. Sale - 10-06-2025, 09:42 PM
RE: Wherefore art thou, aberil? - by Mauro - 11-06-2025, 12:21 PM
RE: Wherefore art thou, aberil? - by RobGea - 12-06-2025, 11:26 AM
RE: Wherefore art thou, aberil? - by ReneZ - 13-06-2025, 12:43 AM
RE: Wherefore art thou, aberil? - by Mauro - 13-06-2025, 09:15 AM
RE: Wherefore art thou, aberil? - by Koen G - 13-06-2025, 07:00 AM
RE: Wherefore art thou, aberil? - by MarcoP - 13-06-2025, 02:56 PM
RE: Wherefore art thou, aberil? - by Koen G - 13-06-2025, 03:55 PM
RE: Wherefore art thou, aberil? - by davidma - 13-06-2025, 04:59 PM
RE: Wherefore art thou, aberil? - by MarcoP - 13-06-2025, 05:05 PM
RE: Wherefore art thou, aberil? - by davidma - 13-06-2025, 05:21 PM
RE: Wherefore art thou, aberil? - by davidma - 13-06-2025, 05:34 PM
RE: Wherefore art thou, aberil? - by nablator - 13-06-2025, 05:55 PM
RE: Wherefore art thou, aberil? - by Koen G - 13-06-2025, 06:05 PM
RE: Wherefore art thou, aberil? - by nablator - 13-06-2025, 06:18 PM
RE: Wherefore art thou, aberil? - by Mauro - 17-06-2025, 12:39 PM
RE: Wherefore art thou, aberil? - by Juan_Sali - 18-06-2025, 02:09 PM
RE: Wherefore art thou, aberil? - by Zauriek - 22-01-2026, 07:18 AM
RE: Wherefore art thou, aberil? - by Jorge_Stolfi - 22-01-2026, 09:12 AM
RE: Wherefore art thou, aberil? - by nablator - 22-01-2026, 12:07 PM
RE: Wherefore art thou, aberil? - by Koen G - 22-01-2026, 12:22 PM
RE: Wherefore art thou, aberil? - by Zauriek - 26-01-2026, 03:46 AM
RE: Wherefore art thou, aberil? - by Koen G - 26-01-2026, 09:49 AM
RE: Wherefore art thou, aberil? - by Doireannjane - 26-01-2026, 05:46 AM
RE: Wherefore art thou, aberil? - by R. Sale - 26-01-2026, 06:23 AM
RE: Wherefore art thou, aberil? - by Doireannjane - 26-01-2026, 06:43 AM
RE: Wherefore art thou, aberil? - by nablator - 26-01-2026, 11:06 AM
RE: Wherefore art thou, aberil? - by Koen G - 26-01-2026, 01:17 PM
RE: Wherefore art thou, aberil? - by Doireannjane - 26-01-2026, 12:31 PM
RE: Wherefore art thou, aberil? - by ReneZ - 26-01-2026, 01:21 PM
RE: Wherefore art thou, aberil? - by Doireannjane - 26-01-2026, 02:39 PM
RE: Wherefore art thou, aberil? - by MarcoP - 26-01-2026, 01:56 PM
RE: Wherefore art thou, aberil? - by ReneZ - 27-01-2026, 01:01 AM
RE: Wherefore art thou, aberil? - by Doireannjane - 27-01-2026, 01:51 AM
RE: Wherefore art thou, aberil? - by Doireannjane - 27-01-2026, 04:08 AM
RE: Wherefore art thou, aberil? - by Koen G - 27-01-2026, 09:38 AM
RE: Wherefore art thou, aberil? - by nablator - 03-02-2026, 06:45 PM
RE: Wherefore art thou, aberil? - by Koen G - 03-02-2026, 07:44 PM
RE: Wherefore art thou, aberil? - by eggyk - 04-02-2026, 01:05 PM
RE: Wherefore art thou, aberil? - by Koen G - 04-02-2026, 03:12 PM
RE: Wherefore art thou, aberil? - by DG97EEB - 01-05-2026, 07:51 PM
RE: Wherefore art thou, aberil? - by MarcoP - 03-05-2026, 07:05 PM

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