(24-03-2026, 03:52 PM)Koen G wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Do keep bumping the thread, I'd like to get to the bottom of the mystery some day.
The UK company (I'm going to keep calling them that cause their real name is so generic) has not sold the design before 2013, and they indeed do not make such small stamps. So we know 99% certain that it did not come directly from them. (Besides, the design is not exactly the same).
As to who got what from whom, I do understand that the design can be derived from a "Renoir soup" so to say, in the sense that everything is there. However, the way "Design 5" and the Salani seal combine elements does not look coincidental to me.
The most logical sequence to me looks like this:
Some designer at some point extends Renoir's catalogue with variations, let's call this Renoir+. The Salani seal is derived from whatever resource Renoir+ is found in. Design 5 is also derived from Renoir+, but makes some additional tweaks.
I agree, the Salani seal and the UK company seal arent the exact same but far too close to be coincidence imo.
In terms of the timeline though, a Renoir+ scenario certainly means that the earliest possible date for the seal would be 1865. At that time, wasn't the VMS supposed to be hidden away in a jesuit collection?
If so, the only time period where the VMS was reasonably available to be copied AND where the seal design may have plausibly existed is from 1912 onwards. So if both the copy and the seal are thought to be contemporaneous, we're likely looking at a 20th/21st century copy (post voynich), unfortunately.