Why does heraldry fail?

[Sam G]

VViews and JKP are mostly accurate in their references to these patterns. Stolfi's description of the first Zodiac examples is at Rene's site. In the description of f71r, he uses the term: "start here" marker for the patterns in two of the circular bands of text around the central medallion. Stolfi used them to start his text transcriptions.

I don't think Stolfi was claiming that the purpose of these markers was necessarily to indicate where to begin reading the text, just that they served as convenient starting locations for a transcription since we can't be absolutely sure where to begin.

There are various markers to be found in several locations containing circular bands of text. Some markers are simple; some patterns are more numerous. Some patterns are complex, some are unique. The markers in the VMs Zodiac are both complex and unique. Besides the two on White Aries, there is another in Cancer. However, there are only these three examples of such markers in all of the VMs Zodiac and these are the only uniquely complex markers in the VMs. If this marker is simply used to designate a location to begin the transcription, why aren't markers found in every circular band? Does each band need to be transcribed? Or just these three? What is the 'purpose' of these makers, and why would an investigator propose something more than casual insignificance to these particular examples?

It's a good question.  It relates to the question of why the illustrations in the Zodiac section generally become more drab as one moves from the beginning to the end.  Even the text labels on the earlier diagrams seem to use more unusual words than in the later diagrams.  I personally doubt that this is because the illustrator got lazy as he went along, as is sometimes suggested.  I think it all follows a predetermined plan and serves some kind of purpose, but I don't know what that purpose is.

The answer is shown by a clear conjunction of parts between one of the patterned markers and one of the blue-striped tub patterns in White Aries illustration, providing the tub pattern is correctly understood in the traditional and historical sense. Religious tradition is invoked through this connection and the interpretation is reinforced in various ways that are built into the construction of this illustration.

It certainly seems possible that the markers are somehow related to the blue-striped tubs.  But I'm not sure you've made a strong case that any of this is necessarily connected to heraldry.  Are the markers themselves found in heraldry?

Koen provides Stolfi's comment on coloration: "that most of the VMs colors are apocryphal and bogus." But if it's "most" but not *all*, are any colors intentional or accurate? If so, what examples? The situation in the VMs Zodiac is that much of it is not painted. And yet it contains one example of a page that is almost fully painted, which is the page in question: f71r. Coloration requires paint or some other system of designation. Almost everything on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. is painted, with the exception of the animal in the central medallion. This offers some implication that the choice was made to leave the animal intentionally 'white' rather than accidentally unpainted. In addition to which, all the other VMs Zodiac animals in medallions have been painted.

I basically agree that the coloration is intentional and follows some kind of plan, and was entirely added by the person or group who originally created the manuscript.  I don't see much basis for the idea that the colors were substantially modified by a later owner who didn't know what he was doing.

Is the choice of color "apocryphal and bogus" in the matter of the *blue* stripes on f71r, or was it an intentional and accurate decision? What if the stripes were red and the hats were green? Would that option provide any sort of historical grounding? The choice of color and pattern is just as intentional as the creation of the proper hierarchical locations for the paired representations, etc., or the use and placement of papelonny patterns on the two preceding pages. The list of traditional, positional confirmations has actually been drawn into the complexity of the illustration. They are objectively there and a part of historical tradition, certain parts of which almost vanished into obscurity.

The colors may be significant to understanding what is going on.  But you know, the figure wearing your beloved "red galero" is clearly female as has been pointed out to you before, which basically moots the issue of the alleged "papelonny" pun.  Even setting these issues aside, the greater problem is that you're focusing on only a small number of the nymphs while ignoring all the others.  How do you account for all the other patterns that can be found on the tubs?  Are there heraldic interpretations for these and if not, then how do we know that the simple and common patterns (scales, blue and white stripes) on the tubs that you focus on necessarily relate to heraldry?

I see this thread has already been designated by a little 'brick wall" logo. Such an indicator seems to express an opinion with little in the way of positive interpretation. Might I have the courtesy of an explanation, (the *reasons* I requested initially)?

You sure you didn't accidentally click next to that icon when you were making your post?