Voynichese Phonotactics

[-JKP-]

Hi JKP, I think you have misunderstood the concept of a syllabic consonant.

It is not a consonant that sounds as though it has combined with a vowel. It is not a consonant that only forms a syllable alone.

It is a consonant which takes the position of a vowel in a syllable (the nucleus) on its own, without a vowel. A syllable with a consonant as its nucleus has no vowel. Not an inserted vowel, not a vowel plus consonant, but no vowel whatsoever.

Also, a syllabic consonant is not simply acting like a syllable, but as a proper nucleus. A complex syllable containing multiple other consonants can be built around it. The Czech word for 'finger' is prst. The /r/ is syllabic and forms the sole nucleus in the word, just like the /a/ in English 'past'.

Emma, look at your statement that I underlined. It is not only taking the position of the vowel, it is frequently taking the sound of the vowel and most importantly, it is taking the function of the vowel and consonant together. If it weren't, there would be no reason to designate it as "syllabic".

I have not misunderstood it.


Plus, I know that it can be a proper nucleus, but I was trying to keep it simple, so we could agree on this step by step. I know other consonants can be built around it, but if we don't agree on the fundamental concept, then the rest of it can't be discussed either.

I agree that in the Czech word prst, the "r" is a syllabic consonant. It functions as we would expect a vowel-consonant combination would in English, or as a syllabic consonant "m" in rhythm does in English. It's called a syllabic consonant because it behaves as we might write "er" in English (or whatever we have that's closest in sound to the implied vowel in English) which, in English, we designate as a syllable (yes I know the syllable might include more than just "er" but I'm trying to stick to basic building blocks until we have agreement that the word "syllable/syllabic" is used for reason of the consonant doing double-duty as a vowel-consonant combination, even if the syllable comprises more than the implied vowel and the consonant).


I don't agree with Koen's statement that a syllabic consonant is a consonant that sounds like a vowel. A syllabic consonant is a consonant that functions like a syllable (the vowel and the consonant together) even if it's part of a larger unit that we would designate as the actual syllable (I think your example of "past" was a good one—obviously the syllable encompasses more than the "as").


Emma, would you agree that the "m" in rhythm is a syllabic consonant and the "m" in bottom is not?