(29-04-2024, 11:12 PM)LisaFaginDavis wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Rich, I could go point by point and explain and refute every one of your very long list of complaints about the contents of my lecture, but I'm not going to. I suppose I'm grateful you took the time to listen so carefully. All I will say is that there are things about the VMS that are not at all unusual - uncertain provenance, uncertain date, uncertain authorship. There are many things that are unusual, as we all know. The fact that some things are unusual and others are not simply does not surprise me at all and does not imply that the VMS is modern.
Don't call me a "wonderful woman." You don't know me.
Don't call me "a rookie." I am not.
Both statements are astonishingly condescending and sexist.
Well no personal insult intended, of course, I do consider you a wonderful person then, if you prefer. Calling you a woman was not meant as an insult, and I can't imagine how you took it that way, but I will respect your wishes and refrain. And I never called you a "rookie" either, I was of course calling the use of a sheep picture, when the Voynich is actually calfskin, a "rookie mistake". The point being, we are all rightly judged on our knowledge of the Voynich, it is important, and it is relevant. Each bit of evidence affects each other. It's like a "Butterfly Effect": One factoid affects a hundred others. It's important to get it right, all of it, and also important to point it out when it is not right. We all do it with each other practically in our sleep. Just look at all the attempted corrections flying back and forth on this one thread!
So "rookie mistake" was obviously not a reference to your abilities and talents as a paleographer. I am really good at some things, not so much at others, and I make rookie mistakes all the time. But I am good with cars, if I may pat myself on the back. But then ask me about removing the differential on my Land Rover, when it was the transfer case that was bad. I've been doing this a loooong time, over fifty years, but THAT was a "rookie mistake". And one might rightly point this out if asked to work on their own car.
Here's the thing, Lisa: This is an important subject to many of us, we all take it seriously... as you do, too. We pore over the minutia of it all, study every detail, and argue over most of them. I am constantly criticized for my opinions, and my mistakes, we all are. It is expected, it is comes with the territory. No one is exempt, nor should they be. And so for you to level a charge of sexism against me is inappropriate, and not true, either. I carefully delineated my points of contention, they were clearly not related to your gender. And if they are wrong for some reason, tell us why... as I do, as Rene does, as anyone does. We don't assume the reason we disagree is because of some prejudice against one sex nor the other, and shouldn't, because it is not.
I rarely agree with Rene, but he doesn't therefore assume I have a prejudice against the Dutch. You are Dutch, right, Rene? Not sure. And most of the people I argue with are men, and its not because they are men, either. They are just wrong. Kidding.
I know already, sometimes through actual practice, that I really like and get along in person with many of the people in this field. Rene and I were already at odds on many issues by the time he first interviewed me in 2009, for the ORF thing. But although we strongly disagree, we still help each other on the side, with references, sharing copies, and notices of upcoming events. Pelling and I? Oh my god... that really has been like cats and dogs at times. Still is, sometimes! But when I have met these guys in person, we have a great time. Pelling and I shared a pizza and a pitcher in Frascati in 2012. We exchange bad puns on X. Elonka and I do not agree at all about the Voynich, but she has visited Cathy and I at home, and we all went geocaching together. I think Koen is probably one of the nicest guys out there... and I highly respect him, too, and would love to meet him. Do we annoy each other, online? No doubt, but I also doubt it would matter in person. And the same goes for most of the people who I argue with, it has nothing to do with personalities, we enjoy when we can get together. I don't think they do, and hope they do not, take our fervent disagreements personally.
Point being, you should not take it personally, either. Because anyone who knows me, knows that would be the furthest thing from my mind. It is simply that I disagree with some of your positions, nothing less, and nothing more.
Rich.