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Foil116v -An Ancient Recipe (updated) - BessAgritianin - 05-02-2025
Here is an updated version of my interpretation for foil 116v of Voynich Manuscript.
For questions, critics and discussions I am always open.
Enjoy!
RE: Foil116v -An Ancient Recipe (updated) - oshfdk - 05-02-2025
I'm not proficient in medieval Moravian (or modern Czech), so I have no idea whether your interpretation is plausible or not.
Why do you interpret "x" as "sh" and "8" as "v"? Are there any Moravian/Czech manuscripts or printed books of the XIV-XVI centuries that demonstrate this way of writing "sh" and "v"? Especially convincing would be if they show it specifically in the words you transcribed, like "poshlibei", "dabav", "imiltjav", "portav", etc.
RE: Foil116v -An Ancient Recipe (updated) - bt2901 - 05-02-2025
The file contains the following:
Quote:The alphabet is some transition or a code which is between Glagolitic and Cyrillic.
(The history of the creation of the alphabet is explained in the introduction.)
I was not able to find the mentioned introduction.
Also, I don't see how a benched gallow character (transcribed as "anchiton") could be an intermediate form between Glagolitic Ⱍ and Cyrillic Ч.
Also how x-like character (or mirrored ∝) from Marish and Morish could be related to either Glagolitic Ⱎ or Cyrillic Ш.
RE: Foil116v -An Ancient Recipe (updated) - RobGea - 05-02-2025
Quoting from your document;
Quote:Logically, this is another proof, that the original document, whose
translation is Voynich Manuscript had been created by a tropical healer,
who knew the achiote tree and used its fruits scientifically.
Are you proposing that the person who was the author / creator of the Voynich Manuscript was the same person who wrote the marginalia on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. ?
RE: Foil116v -An Ancient Recipe (updated) - Rafal - 05-02-2025
People will probably tell you that you are taking too much freedom.
First you read the lettters in some very non natural way.
Then you do:
"dabav" is "dobat"
"ola" is "oleja"
"imiltav" is "jmeli stava"
"portav" is "por stava"
and so on.
Of course you may say that it's some forgotten dialect that nobody has seen before. The problem with such approach or related "polyglot" approach
(take altered words from different languages and mix them together) is that you can apply it to any, even nonsensical text, and tune the words from to it until you get some very rough meaning.
RE: Foil116v -An Ancient Recipe (updated) - BessAgritianin - 06-02-2025
(05-02-2025, 09:57 AM)oshfdk Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I'm not proficient in medieval Moravian (or modern Czech), so I have no idea whether your interpretation is plausible or not.
Why do you interpret "x" as "sh" and "8" as "v"? Are there any Moravian/Czech manuscripts or printed books of the XIV-XVI centuries that demonstrate this way of writing "sh" and "v"? Especially convincing would be if they show it specifically in the words you transcribed, like "poshlibei", "dabav", "imiltjav", "portav", etc.
"8" is the letter "b" or "v" and is a symbol of letter "v" in Cyrillic Alphabet. I think, that the scriber/coder has picked up some Glagolitic and some Cyrillic symbols together with the Latin alphabet to create the code. In the history there is a Prince You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. requested that Emperor Michael III send missionaries to evangelize his Slavic subjects. So they did it and also did create the alphabet, which was corresponding to the language and which is still today in Russia, Bulgaria etc.
Remember this happens in )-th century. But in Czech Republicnow the alphabet is forgotten and they use mostly Latin alphabet, since the Catholic church had won there.
Another proof from VM- if you look carefully on the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. - the alphabet , where "a" begins, then is the second row with VM symbols (almost deleted), then there is a third row, with the real correspondence- against "8" symbol in the third row stays "v". I agree that this with the alphabet needs a separate discourse.
For now I will tell you only that I have other translations from the rest of the text, (herbs, cosmology) where the "8" symbol is read "b" or "v". If I decide to publish all maybe will be more persuading.
I must admit that there are certain places especially in cosmology that "8" is written with a small tail behind- then it could be interpreted as "d".
Concerning "x" as "sh" I have a medieval Croatian document, where it is read as sh and I decided, that this is it.
Now, however I do not have it on this PC. It is on an old one. Promise to provide it.
BR: Vessy
RE: Foil116v -An Ancient Recipe (updated) - BessAgritianin - 06-02-2025
(05-02-2025, 03:21 PM)bt2901 Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The file contains the following:I do not understand also many things, but this is the point of the coder. He uses Glagolitic, Latin and Cyrillic characters for his code.
Quote:The alphabet is some transition or a code which is between Glagolitic and Cyrillic.
(The history of the creation of the alphabet is explained in the introduction.)
I was not able to find the mentioned introduction.
Also, I don't see how a benched gallow character (transcribed as "anchiton") could be an intermediate form between Glagolitic Ⱍ and Cyrillic Ч.
Also how x-like character (or mirrored ∝) from Marish and Morish could be related to either Glagolitic Ⱎ or Cyrillic Ш.
For "ш"="x" there is an old Croatian document from which I figured it out. Will be provided in future, as I do not have it on my present PC.
RE: Foil116v -An Ancient Recipe (updated) - BessAgritianin - 06-02-2025
(05-02-2025, 05:30 PM)RobGea Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Quoting from your document;No, I am suggesting, that the real author, or creator of the manuscript is not the coder, or the scriber, who wrote it. They are different persons.
Quote:Logically, this is another proof, that the original document, whose
translation is Voynich Manuscript had been created by a tropical healer,
who knew the achiote tree and used its fruits scientifically.
Are you proposing that the person who was the author / creator of the Voynich Manuscript was the same person who wrote the marginalia on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. ?
I think that the real author had written it much earlier. The scribers who translated/copied it and coded it into Voynichese lived later.
RE: Foil116v -An Ancient Recipe (updated) - BessAgritianin - 06-02-2025
(05-02-2025, 05:56 PM)Rafal Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.People will probably tell you that you are taking too much freedom.
First you read the lettters in some very non natural way.
Then you do:
"dabav" is "dobat"
"ola" is "oleja"
"imiltav" is "jmeli stava"
"portav" is "por stava"
and so on.
Of course you may say that it's some forgotten dialect that nobody has seen before. The problem with such approach or related "polyglot" approach
(take altered words from different languages and mix them together) is that you can apply it to any, even nonsensical text, and tune the words from to it until you get some very rough meaning.
For "v" I have explained myself in the other answers, so no need to be repeated.
For portav and imeltav , you are right that they may be interpreted as t'av- which is melted not juice, but creation through boiling.
BR: Vessy
RE: Foil116v -An Ancient Recipe (updated) - oshfdk - 06-02-2025
(06-02-2025, 05:46 AM)BessAgritianin Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. Another proof from VM- if you look carefully on the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. - the alphabet , where "a" begins, then is the second row with VM symbols (almost deleted), then there is a third row, with the real correspondence- against "8" symbol in the third row stays "v".
I think there is a very clear Latin b in the third row in the MSI images. Given the whole sequence goes a ? c d e, and the letter looks like "b", I find it hard to imagine this could be "v".