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+--- Thread: The Light of God Powers the Universe (/thread-4191.html)
The Light of God Powers the Universe - pjburkshire - 10-03-2024
I reviewed the herculeaf posts about the Rosettes page. I do not agree that all nine circles represent one city. I think the center circle is the Empyrean where God resides. In Christian religious cosmologies, the Empyrean is "the source of light" so I think that nozzle-looking thing at the bottom with the chevrons coming out is God's light pouring out. There is also a place at the top with small circles pouring out and a nozzle to the left with line segments pouring out. There is also a place on the right with something pouring out but it is lost in the fold damage.
I think all of this imagery of something pouring out from the center circle is God's power pouring out and powering the universe. I think the circles that God's power is pouring into are the classical elements; earth, water, air, fire. I think air is the top, earth the bottom, fire the left, and water the right. The elements are the building blocks of the universe.
I don't see the city as intended to descended from Heaven to Earth. I see it as something that is expected to exist beyond the clouds/ether/aether when people get to Heaven after death. It probably doesn't matter if you call this Heavenly city the Empyrean or New Jerusalem or any other name, I think we are talking about the same basic idea of the residence of God in the Heavens.
I agree with this comment about the upper-right circle: "a sign of the ruling class and its wealth." I would continue with this idea that the opposite circle in the lower-left represents the clergy and the circle in the lower-right represents the common people; merchants and farmers. Maybe it's just me but I think that green rectangle with the squiggly lines looks like a garden or a field. I don't know about the blue X. Maybe that is a crossroad to represent traveling merchants.
I haven't given up on the idea of the small T-O Map in the upper-right as representing the world of the nobles of the larger circle. In life, the nobles rule the physical world on Earth.
I haven't given up on the idea of the clock/compass-looking thing in the lower-left as representing the Holy Trinity and relating to the larger circle representing the clergy who are the Earthly spiritual guides in life. I think maybe that cloud-looking thing with the trumpet-looking thing that is between the lower-left circle and the center circle may be an illustration that the clergy are the ones who hear the voice of God the loudest.
Maybe all those pipes are both for the voice of God from Heaven to Earth and as representing the prayers from people on Earth to God in Heaven.
I took the two suns in opposite corners to mean that the page was to be rotated and viewed from different positions.
This is just a wild guess but maybe the upper-left circle is the gateway between Earth and Heaven. Maybe it is the Aether, the fifth classical element. Maybe those pipes coming from that upper-left circle towards the center circle represent the prayers from people on Earth to God in Heaven. If someone asked me to draw a picture representing God in Heaven hearing the prayers of people on Earth, I'm not sure what I would draw.
I don't see the story as an end-of-the-world story. I see the story as the personal journey of each soul (I still think all those stars on the Zodiac pages are souls, not stars up in the sky) from pre-birth, to Ensoulment ( You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. , You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. ) following conception and pregnancy, to life (f85r2), to death (f86v4) and Judgment (f86v3), and then to Heaven (Ros).
I think the story of how each pre-birth soul is selected to be born on Earth is told in the Zodiac pages of Quire 9, Quire 10, Quire 11, and Quire 12.
I don't have a clue what that thing is coming out of the upper-right circle towards the center or what that thing is coming out of the lower-right circle towards the center.
RE: The Light of God Powers the Universe - Koen G - 10-03-2024
I assume you are referring to this post: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
When doing that research with Cary, one of the first problems we ran into is that our current ideas of "heaven" and related concepts are completely different from the biblical and medieval understanding. So a large part of the post is intended to convey how the Bible, early Church fathers and medieval traditions thought about Heaven and the End Times.
We discovered that a lot of properties of biblical/medieval heaven are reflected in some way in the Rosettes page:
* square plan (even the foldout itself is designed to be square)
* huge, broad walls
* walls made of different materials
* city descends from heaven, and is thus carried by clouds
* city is luminous
This biblical/medieval heaven was not a distant place where one would go after death. It was a situation that would arise on Earth at the End Times. It would coincide with the Apocalypse, the raising of the dead, worldwide destruction of earthly rulers etc.
To the medieval mind, the destruction of the world as we know it and the beginning of God's Kingdom on earth (i.e. the descent of Heavenly Jerusalem, the Civitate Dei) are one and the same event. It is the most important thought in medieval Christianity: if you live well, you too will be raised from the dead when God comes to rule here on Earth. Medieval souls did not "go to heaven" at the end of times. They would become part of God's eternal kingdom here on earth.
I believe the design of the rosettes page is influenced by the philosophy of Augustine, probably the most influential Church Father. He argued that the Church on earth is already, in a way, God's kingdom, strongly linking the concepts of the worldwide Church and salvation at the End Times in medieval thought. That it why it would make sense to the medieval viewer that a, image shows the Church (Christendom) a church (building) and Heavenly Jerusalem all at once, because they are one and the same.
Which medieval source are you basing your views on?
RE: The Light of God Powers the Universe - pjburkshire - 10-03-2024
Oddly enough, it started with a discussion about the issue of abortion. I was having a conversation with a Muslim person about when the soul enters the body of the baby in the womb.
No long after that conversation, I happened to be looking at the manuscript illustrations and then when I saw the star entering the body of the sleeping woman it just popped into my head that it was a picture of Ensoulment.
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After studying the illustrations, I realized that the main story of Quire 13 is about Ensoulment. I think that is the main theme of the work. I think the part about Heaven and the afterlife is just the end wrap-up and not the main theme. I know from the point of view of the Church, the main goal is to get souls to Heaven but I don't think that is the main theme of the manuscript. I think it is more about getting the pre-born souls from Heaven to Earth.
RE: The Light of God Powers the Universe - ReneZ - 11-03-2024
Perhaps a bit of a side issue, but this is one of the concepts that Johannes Marcus Marci, early owner of the Voynich MS, was interested in.
While he is not known for any particularly important discoveries, he published about embryology in his book "Idearum operatricium idea", and his concepts brought him great displeasure from the side of the Jesuits, which followed him till the end of his life.
The problem was that (at least according to the Jesuits) his theories did not allow for the "original sin" to pass into the child. (My phrasing is from memory and probaly only partly accurate).
RE: The Light of God Powers the Universe - Koen G - 11-03-2024
The VM was made in the early 15th century. What were the views about ensoulment around that time?
RE: The Light of God Powers the Universe - pjburkshire - 11-03-2024
(11-03-2024, 07:51 AM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The VM was made in the early 15th century. What were the views about ensoulment around that time?
As far as I know, in the 15th century the people of Europe still followed the ideas of the Ancient Greeks.
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Aristotle believed a fetus in early gestation has the soul of a vegetable, then of an animal, and only later became "animated" with a human soul by "ensoulment".
I think this vegetable to animal and then to human is what is being illustrated on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. .
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The "nymph" at the top is holding a plant. The second "nymph" is holding what I think looks like a bird. I think the third "nymph" is in the process of transforming into human.
I know the idea that the stars in the Zodiac section are souls (and not stars up in the sky) has been presented before but, as far as I know, I am the only person who has presented this Aristotelian Ensoulment idea. Everyone else immediately dismisses it.
I don't know if knowing what Quire 13 is about will help in any way with the deciphering but maybe it can.
RE: The Light of God Powers the Universe - cvetkakocj@rogers.com - 11-03-2024
It might be a surprise to some that genuine medieval mystics understood human soul as a conscience that has the ability to grow with the expanded knowledge of good and evil. Like contemporary psychologists, they recognized different degrees of human consciousness (soul). A simple conscious is that of a child: loving, sharing, shameless, guilt-free, playful, carefree, trusting people around him, but fearing strangers. These basic instinct are part of human nature, similar to the animal instinct, which means that humans also share basic existential protective instinct, such as anger and violence when threatened. Like animals, humans are created in such a way that they can learn new things and change their instinctual behaviour. They are superior to animals because of their ability for abstract thinking and writing. We are discovering that animals, too, might be able to 'think', but they cannot transmit their wisdom across time and space, like humans do by way of speaking and writing. This is why the Word is considered the greatest gift of God, and God itself.
There are three levels of human soul, similar to Freud's division: it, ego and superego. In the concept of medieval mystics, there was still a higher level attainable only by genuine mystical experience (mystical death). Only mystics who attained such high level can properly apprehend God and speak on His behalf.
The human concept of Good and Evil is not something static - it is growing like a tree and enables humans to adjust to changing reality. The progress in human spirituality was possible because of the individuals that were willing to step outside the collective consciousness and seek God-like perfection, whatever the concept of God(s) was in particular societies.
A human soul is not something that 'drops' from a physical heaven, picks a fertilized embrio and departs from human body at the time of the death of the physical body to return to a heaven, hell or purgatory. The medieval mystics knew that the humans souls live in the collective consciousness (which with the expansion of knowledge can be expanded) and as such had influence on the present and the future. The Christ-like consciousness gives mystics the freedom to accept or reject society's norms and work toward changes that would benefit the entire society. This feels like a heave burden for them, because they are aware that they are 'co-creating' human souls. The biblical writers considered heaven a 'child-like' trust in Life and in Goodness of people, purgatory as a state of fear and anxiety, and hell as mental and physical torture.
The medieval mystics had great appreciation for nature and the universe, for in their harmonious working they saw the reflection of the universal Creator.
They believed in the cultivation of soul (nature and nurture in contemporary psychological terms) and progression of spirituality into a single universal religion, and since the Church was not interested a the time, humanistic writers took on this unifying role. Since their work was pronounced heretical, they developed symbolic language in literature and in visual arts, to assure the survival of their work.
The images of plants (as trees with roots, stems and blooms) in the VM clearly reflect the connection of the past to the present and the future), and the three concentrical circles with a dot in the middle reflect God in the smallest and the largest extremes, while three middle rings representing the degrees of human consciousness.
The genuine mystics did not believe in re-incarnation, but in conditioning of the soul by reading the biblical writing. They were particularly focused on the Book of Revelation which they interpreted symbolically rather than literally. They believed in adult baptism as a ritualistic affirmation of their Christian conscience and their decision to follow Jesus' teaching.
In his book The Guide for the Perplexed, Moses Maimonides explain why God is depicted in anthropomorphical terms and how God-like consciousness is attained. In medieval Europe, Meister Eckhart and his followers had taken similar view. Particularly Carthusians wrote many guides for would-be mystics, but admitted that the gift of genuine prophesy cannot be learned, and that various techniques can only prepare the human souls for a genuine mystical experience, which was considered 'God's special grace'.
The idea that God physically existed in some heaven above the earth was foreign to the genuine medieval mystics who believed that God needs human bodies and human minds to work out his plan for humanity. But most of all, they believed that those who speak on God's behalf have to reflect on their own lives first and 'purify' themselves first so that they can guide people by way of Love and good deeds.
The history has a way of repeating itself. We are now experience similar division and confusion in our individual lives and in society in general. I believe that the Voynich Manuscript reflects the spirituality of the great medieval mystics who were calling for Church reforms that would promote unity, rather than division, for more equality and democracy in society, but their voices were silent, their books mostly destroyed and their ideas suppressed.
A lot of human suffering had been caused because of misinterpretation of the Bible. That was something the medieval mystics were concerned about, and we too should be concerned.
RE: The Light of God Powers the Universe - pjburkshire - 21-03-2024
Not long ago I spent many weeks in "discussion" with a very devout Christian woman (different platform/forum/message board/topic) who insisted that the Sun burning up in the sky was proof of the existence of God. She insisted that if God didn't keep the Sun going then it would have burned out long ago because all fires burn up their fuel and burn out. Therefore, the Sun up in the sky and still burning for thousands of years was proof of God.
I tried to explain to her that the Sun was not fire. I tried to explain about Hydrogen and Helium and nuclear fusion. I tried to explain to her just how big the Sun is and that someday it will burn through all its fuel. She would have none of that. To her, the Sun was proof of God and that was that.
Maybe I should ask her to interpret the Rosettes page.