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+--- Thread: How to prove that the B-language is not Greek? (/thread-3904.html)
RE: How to prove that the B-language is not Greek? - Ruby Novacna - 09-01-2023
(08-01-2023, 11:04 PM)Aga Tentakulus Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Your text, even if the words are in English, cannot be translated into German as a sentence. I can't read it like that.Thank you, Aga!
Even if the words are not directly correct in their form, they should still tell a comprehensible story.
Since it is f116, perhaps the story should be in the field of medicine.
I don't think they are prescriptions, I think they are instructions on how to treat a disease. I just can't find any quantities for recipes. At least, they are not visible in this way.
My message was not intended to convince you of the accuracy of my translation, but to seek advice from those who are used to handling large text files on the best way to present my results or the results of someone another.
Manipulating files, looking up dictionaries take too much of my time and time is precious.
As for the final translation, this will be the third step.
However, it would be pointless to expect ancient Greek to be translated word for word into modern German; it is sufficient to compare some recognised translations of Greek texts with their originals.
RE: How to prove that the B-language is not Greek? - Aga Tentakulus - 09-01-2023
A fundamental question.
I don't want to criticise it.
You won't get away from working with the dictionary for a long time, no matter how long it takes.
In translation, Ancient Greek is first translated into Modern Greek and then into another language.
But the words still have to tell a story when they stand in a row.
"Needle, walk, chair, given" would probably not make sense.
"walk, lake, hook, worm, fish". Here one could already assume a story.
That's the problem with single words, they usually don't make sense.
RE: How to prove that the B-language is not Greek? - Ruby Novacna - 10-01-2023
In the end I opted for the spreadsheet.
![[Image: essai-table-1.png]](https://readingvoynich.files.wordpress.com/2023/01/essai-table-1.png)
I hope that this model will improve my performance.
(09-01-2023, 06:14 PM)Aga Tentakulus Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view....the words still have to tell a story when they stand in a row.You took these words from my blog? I don't remember publishing them.
"Needle, walk, chair, given" would probably not make sense.
"walk, lake, hook, worm, fish". Here one could already assume a story.
That's the problem with single words, they usually don't make sense.
Every text is composed of single words, understanding them is the first step towards a complete translation.
RE: How to prove that the B-language is not Greek? - Aga Tentakulus - 10-01-2023
No, they are not from your blog.
I just lined up a few words from memory as an example.
Some as nonsense, and some as a possible story.
RE: How to prove that the B-language is not Greek? - Ruby Novacna - 11-01-2023
(10-01-2023, 07:28 PM)Aga Tentakulus Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.No, they are not from your blog.Instead of criticizing an imaginary word list, you can practice on a real riddle from our manuscript:
I just lined up a few words from memory as an example.
Some as nonsense, and some as a possible story.
1 which produces a sound 2 like a serpent 3 on the ground 4 on the way 5 period 6 as well as 7 like a serpent 8 related 9 cup 10 arteries
Some words have multiple meanings:
1 folded or doubled up
2 shingles
3 chief/desirable/this year's
5 ?
6 but
7 belonging to a serpent
8 branching of a vein/divided
9 drink/drinker/of flight/of sample of wine/of drunk
10 intestines
I wish you a good exercise!
RE: How to prove that the B-language is not Greek? - Aga Tentakulus - 11-01-2023
I don't know what they are getting at, and I don't know what these words refer to. Therefore, they are actually useless.
I also know hundreds of words, I just don't write them down anymore. I take them as they come. Sometimes even whole sentences
RE: How to prove that the B-language is not Greek? - Ruby Novacna - 12-01-2023
(11-01-2023, 06:32 PM)Aga Tentakulus Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I don't know what they are getting at, and I don't know what these words refer to. Therefore, they are actually useless.Exercising is never useless.
I also know hundreds of words, I just don't write them down anymore. I take them as they come. Sometimes even whole sentences
By the way, what is stopping you from publishing your results?
Personally I would like to know if you have found the differences between languages A and B.
RE: How to prove that the B-language is not Greek? - Aga Tentakulus - 13-01-2023
Actually, I always disclose my findings, I just never wrote a summary of it all together.
I have never done any research on the difference between Hand A+B. Since both hands respond equally in my tests, I don't assume a second language.
Individual words are useless if you don't assign them to a language. Could be anything. German, French, Greek, Latin, etc. Since you assign the words to Greek for yourself, they are important for your experiments.
So individual words are important for me, since I start from Latin. Respectively from the template of f116. If I put them in order to make a comprehensible text, they are not really helpful either.
I don't write everything down, but I'll create an example for you.
RE: How to prove that the B-language is not Greek? - Ruby Novacna - 15-01-2023
(17-12-2022, 06:19 PM)MarcoP Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Simple substitutions preserve most of the statistical features of the source language, for instance character conditional entropy, the binomial distribution of word lengths, consecutive repetition of words. The source language must therefore match the values of these properties observed in the VMS. European languages don't match these properties and are therefore ruled out for a simple substitution.I found some Wikipedia articles about word repetition.
"Polyptoton is the stylistic scheme in which words derived from the same root are repeated (such as "strong" and "strength").
A related stylistic device is antanaclasis, in which the same word is repeated, but each time with a different sense.
Another related term is figura etymologica in which words with the same etymological derivation are used in the same passage."
Certainly, knowing that repetition has its place in European languages is not enough to be able to explain the repetitions of the text of the VM, it would first be necessary to be able to translate them.
RE: How to prove that the B-language is not Greek? - Aga Tentakulus - 21-01-2023
As promised, I have compiled something for them from my research.
Actually, I wanted something where a picture describes. Had decided for this text, because it also contains a @ and shows the harmony to "et". Where I have already mentioned.
But I come to the conclusion that it does not describe the picture, but is a part of the text.
I used two different translators to be somewhat sure.
Here I must also ask a question to linguists. Since in the text the word " dewdrop " also appears, whether around 1400 the words distillation and condensate were used.
Have fun.