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+--- Thread: [Other] Voynich Manuscript - a technical manual in Old Czech by Elena Konovalova (/thread-3895.html)
Voynich Manuscript - a technical manual in Old Czech by Elena Konovalova - Ruby Novacna - 16-11-2022
A few days ago Youtube offered me a You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. in Russian, three weeks old, about a translation of the manuscript by Elena Konovalova.
I confess I didn't have enough patience to follow the video, so I searched for the text and You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. To my astonishment the text dates from 2017 and apparently the work has not been followed up, the details have remained without much precision until today. But perhaps Elena Konovalova's ideas can inspire other researchers.
RE: Voynich Manuscript - a technical manual in Old Czech by Elena Konovalova - Hider - 16-11-2022
[quote="Руби Новакна" pid='52817' dateline='1668592904']
возможно, идеи Елены Коноваловой могут вдохновить других исследователей.
perhaps Elena Konovalova's ideas can inspire other researchers.
[/цитировать]
Порадовала идея с самагонным аппаратом и змеевиком к нему.
I was pleased with the idea of the samagon and the coil to it.
RE: Voynich Manuscript - a technical manual in Old Czech by Elena Konovalova - Ruby Novacna - 16-11-2022
(16-11-2022, 07:23 PM)Hider Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I was pleased with the idea of the samagon and the coil to it.If today distillation does not appear to be an extremely complicated process, in past centuries it may well have been a secret process and deserving of symbolic representation.
RE: Voynich Manuscript - a technical manual in Old Czech by Elena Konovalova - Hider - 17-11-2022
(16-11-2022, 10:33 PM)Ruby Novacna Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.the distillation process is as old as the world(16-11-2022, 07:23 PM)Hider Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I was pleased with the idea of the samagon and the coil to it.If today distillation does not appear to be an extremely complicated process, in past centuries it may well have been a secret process and deserving of symbolic representation.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
RE: Voynich Manuscript - a technical manual in Old Czech by Elena Konovalova - Ruby Novacna - 17-11-2022
(17-11-2022, 08:52 PM)Hider Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.the distillation process is as old as the worldInteresting, unfortunately there is no bibliographical references
RE: Voynich Manuscript - a technical manual in Old Czech by Elena Konovalova - nablator - 17-11-2022
(17-11-2022, 09:45 PM)Ruby Novacna Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Interesting, unfortunately there is no bibliographical referencesYou are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
There you go.
RE: Voynich Manuscript - a technical manual in Old Czech by Elena Konovalova - Ruby Novacna - 18-11-2022
Thank you, Nablator!
I hope that the writings of the Ancients can provide us with some terms applicable to our text.
RE: Voynich Manuscript - a technical manual in Old Czech by Elena Konovalova - cvetkakocj@rogers.com - 18-11-2022
Hi, Ruby, thank you for alerting us about the movie and the English text. For me, it will come useful for writing a book about all those ridiculous VM theories published in the books or floating on the internet. Did you see the video of the academic Audrius Plioplys at You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
I am not surprised this Russian video surfaced recently, because, like Turkish theory, it is full of nationalistic tendencies about the historical national supremacy and antagonism towards the Western Europe. Both theories claim their people originally lived in Italy and formed ancient Etruscan culture.
Except for claiming that the Latin alphabet in which the VM is written, has no letters S,Z, h, J, m, F, P, Y, L, Q she says nothing about the alphabet and its transcription, nor about the Old Church Slavonic alphabet. There is no mention of grammar, either.
I can assure you there is no description of any advanced technological Russian secrets in the VM. She must have been under heavy influence of vodka to write such fantasy.
I came from the peasant environment where people were still living like in the Middle Ages (comparable to contemporary Amish or Mennonites). As a child, I slept on the home-made flax bedsheets, and I spent countless hours watching the moonshine drip into the bottle (that was an easy labour reserved for children). The technological process did not look like those pictures.
I also knitted my own socks and mittens from the homemade wool my older sister had spoon on her spinning wheel.
In her video, Elina used a lot of time to explain the superior Russian history and technology, but she does not mention once how the Old Church Slavonic came to Russia. The Old Church Slavonic, as the language used in the first Slavic liturgy in Great Moravia is called, was first used in Great Moravia, which extended to Pannonia where St. Methodius' bishopric was located. In the 9th century, before the Hungarian invasion, Slavic language and Glagolitic script was used in liturgy. After the use of Slavic was forbidden in Bohemia, expelled Slavic missionaries fled to Adriatic coast and to present day Macedonia (then in Bulgaria), where they established cultural and religious centre in Ohrid. Eastern Orthodox Church was accepted and Cyrillic writing.
By the mid-14th century, Slavic writing and liturgy was no longer used in Bohemia, but the Patriarchate of Aquileia still permitted the use of national languages, and the Pope eventually allowed the use of Glagolitic in Croatia, the homeland of Marco Polo Elina mentions several times. Emperor Charles IV tried to re-vitalize the use of Old Church Slavonic in Bohemia by importing monks from Croatia, but the use of it was limited mostly to the monastery, because after Hussite war, Latin alphabet prevailed in Czeck writing.
By 15th century, the Old Church Slavonic had already diversified into several Slavic languages. There is plenty of material where Elena could have learned how the Czeck language in the 15th century looked like. It was much closer to the West-Slavic languages than to Russian, and closest to Slovenian and Slovak.
Elina's claim that the original text in the VM was scraped off and replaced by the subsequent handlers of the book is ridiculous. So is her claim that the Cosmology page contains the map of Russia and its ancient principalities. So much for it being the map of Istambul! Or the island of Ishia in Italy!
It is true that Russians regarded their Christianity superior. After conquering Kazan, they built an extravagant Basilica of St. Basel in St. Petersburg, comprised of nine churches, which were called Jerusalem. The floor plan does look a bit of nine circles in Cosmology page, but the churches were built 100 years after the VM was created, by Italian craftsmen.
Elina makes a point that the individual plants are realistic depiction of garlic, onions, sugar beets, peas, flax and hem, but offer no explanation how these plants were called in Old Church Slavonic, not even how she transcribes them. She also offers no words for root, stem, leaf, blossom, which would be essential for the description of those, and other plants.
Her vocabulary, without any explanation how she arrived at such transcription and how the words relate to medieval Czeck, or to the Old Church Slavonic, is worthless.
RE: Voynich Manuscript - a technical manual in Old Czech by Elena Konovalova - Ruby Novacna - 19-11-2022
(18-11-2022, 07:39 PM)cvetkakocj@rogers.com Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Her vocabulary, without any explanation how she arrived at such transcription and how the words relate to medieval Czeck, or to the Old Church Slavonic, is worthless.Cvetka, you answered for me why I was only interested in the explanations of the pictures.
(18-11-2022, 07:39 PM)cvetkakocj@rogers.com Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.For me, it will come useful for writing a book about all those ridiculous VM theories published in the books or floating on the internet.In my opinion, theories are not "ridiculous", they are diverse, useful or not for your own research. The images are like the Rorschach test, where everyone sees their own obsessions.
I still hope that the clash of different ideas will eventually cause a spark to light up the truth.
RE: Voynich Manuscript - a technical manual in Old Czech by Elena Konovalova - Wladimir D - 19-11-2022
I stumbled upon this work a month ago. Watched the video twice. And the second time with stops and small returns to clarify ideas.
I want to correct (clarify) Svetka. The meaning of the phrase in the video is that the manuscript is written in Latin. This means that Latin letters were used to write Slavic words (not necessarily phonemically coinciding). And this, in fact, should be a replacement cipher, the alphabet of which is really not represented.
I tried to compose it based on the phonetic sound (author's reading) of the labels on page 84r. I didn't succeed. I was especially stunned that labels under 3 and 6 arches are read the same way.