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[Article] What Will It Take to Solve the Voynich Manuscript? - Printable Version

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RE: What Will It Take to Solve the Voynich Manuscript? - Ruby Novacna - 26-06-2020

As I understand it, this is not a scientific journal and the article is just for information?


RE: What Will It Take to Solve the Voynich Manuscript? - Emma May Smith - 27-06-2020

Indeed, some people are putting far too much weight on what is a relatively casual introduction to the Voynich manuscript.


RE: What Will It Take to Solve the Voynich Manuscript? - Anton - 27-06-2020

I would be careful about "prefix-root-suffix", what's on the surface is some multilayered vord construction, like there is "ol", there is "tol", then there is "otol", then "qotol". But then it's not definite whether "qotol" is "q + otol" or "qo + tol", or whether "otol" is "o + tol" or "ot + ol". On the other hand, there is, say, "otolary", again it's not clear whether it's "otol + ary" or "otolar + y".

There seem to be prefixes and suffixes, but when you are decomposing long vords into their shorter counterparts you come to the situation of very basic "roots", essentially bigrams, like "ol" or "ar".

There is also the "curve-line" phenomenon there, of which there's been an article by Cham & Jackson in 2015 (my review and the discussion can be found in our "Peer reviews" section).


RE: What Will It Take to Solve the Voynich Manuscript? - Torsten - 27-06-2020

(27-06-2020, 11:24 AM)Emma May Smith Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Indeed, some people are putting far too much weight on what is a relatively casual introduction to the Voynich manuscript.

Lisa Davis writes her articles as the executive director of the Medieval Academy of America. Therefore I wouldn't dismiss something Lisa wrote as unimportant. Also the Manuscripts society does "promote the highest professional and ethical standards" (see You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.). Moreover I really want to understand what Lisa means "with linguistically identifiable roots, prefixes, and suffixes" and "repeating grammatical patterns". If the patterns Lisa Davis describes would exist they would indicate indeed a natural human language. I'm pretty sure that Lisa Davis wouldn't describe a pattern out of thin air and maybe Lisa refers to a pattern all other researchers have overlocked and opens this way a new avenue of research. 

In the Washington post article it is written as an introduction: "with what appear to be roots, prefixes and suffixes as well as repeating spelling and grammatical patterns." (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.). But within the last year the word "appear" has disappeared. Moreover the reader reads sentences like: "An acceptable proposal must result in a reading that makes sense semantically, chronologically, and logically" (Davis 2020, p. 82) in the context of the introduction. There is no doubt what the intention is, especially since Lisa explicitly writes "Hundreds of people have studied the Voynich in the last few decades alone, and much of that work does add productively to the conversation, especially the computational linguistic analyses" (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., p. 82). 

Anyway, Lisa says "There is a responsibility to be straightforward about the reality" (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.) and demands: "Researchers owe it to their readers, and themselves, to review what others have done (and cite them accordingly), pursue threads that seem promising, and abandon avenues that have been proven to be dead ends" (Davis 2020, p. 82).


RE: What Will It Take to Solve the Voynich Manuscript? - -JKP- - 27-06-2020

I recognize that Lisa's article is to introduce the manuscript and I am supportive of that. This is something she does well. The vast majority of people know nothing about the VMS, even if they are aware that it exists and this generates interest and enthusiasm.

But the prefix/root/suffix assertion is quite important. I do not think there is any evidence for a prefix/root/suffix configuration, and it is a significant concept in terms of assessing and representing the structure of the text. I have faith that Ms Fagin Davis is responsible enough to re-assess a statement if it goes against what is known (so far) about the text.


RE: What Will It Take to Solve the Voynich Manuscript? - R. Sale - 02-07-2020

What will it take? A new approach.

I'm rarely involved in the linguistic investigations, so perhaps a more distant perspective. Much of current analysis is statistical. It's like putting text content in a blender and examining what comes out. Investigations keep hammering and hammering, and let's say: yes, a lot has been learned. BUT the fact is - no solution.

Time to use a different tool. Instead of the hammer, use the pincers. Attack from two sides. The hammer will serve as one half of the pincers, but what about the other half?

There are two parts to investigation: the method and the subject. The hammer is the method and and the subject is not the VMs text in its entirety, but a single line from the text - because, if we can't read a single line - how do we expect to read the whole thing?

The other part of the pincers is the subject of investigation. The subject is a single line of text. Where does it come from? Start at the beginning? Choose it at random? Does the VMs provide any clues? Is there any kind of pictorial linguistic interface that connects both parts together?

Gosh, that's a tough one. - - Of course there is! There are Stolfi's markers all over. And if they were all equivalent, it would be a long haul going through them. Fortunately, a few examples of the deluxe version of Stolfi's markers are to be found in the VMs version of the Zodiac sequence - with a pair of markers in the text bands of VMs White Aries. [And the only other one in Cancer.]

So when the VMs investigator asks for a specific text segment to examine, the VMs replies by having a pope (a pope in disguise) present the specially marked texts of White Aries. The historical investigator wins the VMs game of 'Where's Baldo?' by knowing that the stripes are blue. The VMs creator has built a text segment delivery apparatus. You have to wonder why - other than the obvious.


RE: What Will It Take to Solve the Voynich Manuscript? - bi3mw - 02-07-2020

(02-07-2020, 06:59 PM)R. Sale Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Much of current analysis is statistical.
Nor do I believe that statistical studies will provide a quick solution. It is rather the tedious way, in which, in the best case, you get answers in partial areas of the VMS. The sum of the findings can then provide a framework for obtaining and checking new approaches to solution.