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+--- Thread: [Other] Course in Cologne focusing on VMS (/thread-2902.html)
RE: Course in Cologne focusing on VMS - bi3mw - 24-10-2019
(23-10-2019, 04:41 PM)Anton Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Quote:and I suspect most papers are not read, but only quoted
Oh that's generally true, and more than that, many papers are quoted without ever being seen.
I can hardly imagine that. After all, there could always be a discussion and you can not participate in it if you do not read the papers at all.
RE: Course in Cologne focusing on VMS - Koen G - 24-10-2019
It's probably true for the press, journalists not getting enough time and simply relying on the press release and all that.
RE: Course in Cologne focusing on VMS - Anton - 24-10-2019
(24-10-2019, 02:14 PM)bi3mw Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(23-10-2019, 04:41 PM)Anton Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Quote:and I suspect most papers are not read, but only quoted
Oh that's generally true, and more than that, many papers are quoted without ever being seen.
I can hardly imagine that. After all, there could always be a discussion and you can not participate in it if you do not read the papers at all.
It is not about not reading at all, it is just that you do not read (some of) the papers that you quote. This is actually quite widespread when preparing literature reviews or descriptive/introduction sections. Like "as shown by NN in [xx]..." Everybody knows what was shown by NN in [xx], so you don't risk anything by asserting that without reading the paper or book [xx]. Another case is when the paper [xx] is not available. This implies more risk since you can be a bit mistaken about what was shown in [xx] and what was not, but you make an educated guess.
It should not be understood that I endorse this practice, but I have done that myself. Generally because I was poor and could not afford purchasing all the papers I was in need of, so I often had to deal with abstracts only.
RE: Course in Cologne focusing on VMS - bi3mw - 24-10-2019
(24-10-2019, 06:39 PM)Anton Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.....Ok, that's different. By the way, I am by no means willing to pay for articles. There are no articles I 'm forced to read. That is a question of principle for me. I also do not pay for overpriced books. In this case, the Google Books preview must be sufficient. In my opinion, it is okay to quote these text sources.
It should not be understood that I endorse this practice, but I have done that myself. Generally because I was poor and could not afford purchasing all the papers I was in need of, so I often had to deal with abstracts only.
RE: Course in Cologne focusing on VMS - MarcoP - 08-01-2020
I stumbled upon this German podcast about the VMS that appears to be an interview with Jürgen Hermes.
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I wonder if someone could summarize the contents (I don't speak German), or if the admins could consider a "Voynich Ninja Interview" with Jürgen...
RE: Course in Cologne focusing on VMS - hermesj - 09-01-2020
Dear Marco, thanks for your interest! In this interview I haven't told anything that you can't find anywhere else. It was more an introduction for people who had never heard of the manuscript before. Furthermore I talked about the general scientific treatment of the VMS, how the Polygraphia of Trithemius is structured and why I assumed in 2012 (in my dissertation) that the VMS could consist of a similar code as described there. I have not yet completely departed from that, but I think Thorsten Timm's autoocopist theory is more plausible in the present state of facts.
RE: Course in Cologne focusing on VMS - MarcoP - 11-01-2020
Hi Jürgen,
thank you for the additional details! Was your Trithemius research ever presented in English? I am quite ignorant about cryptograpy and I would be interested in understanding why you think / thought that the VMS could be similar to that particular system.
RE: Course in Cologne focusing on VMS - hermesj - 14-01-2020
My research on the Voynich manuscript was only a kind of by-product of my dissertation on text processing. I decided to wait and see if anyone would be interested in this approach and want to learn more about it. Since this was not really the case, I did not bother with an English translation so far. But maybe I will publish something in my blog next month (that's not a promise).
RE: Course in Cologne focusing on VMS - MarcoP - 02-03-2020
Hi Jürgen,
if you don't have time for an extensive post about your dissertation, maybe you could just share a few paragraphs about the specific method by Trithemius and a link to a description of the encription system (by Trithemius or in secondary sources)? That, and a short explanation of why you find that particular method relevant, should allow me to get some grasp on what you did.
RE: Course in Cologne focusing on VMS - Helmut Winkler - 13-04-2021
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