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+--- Thread: No text, but a visual code (/thread-2384.html)
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RE: No text, but a visual code - Juan_Sali - 24-04-2022
(22-04-2022, 10:04 PM)Antonio García Jiménez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.It is useless trying to decipher the Voynich script before knowing what the book means. It seems like a paradox but it is not. I firmly believe that we can know what the VM transmits through the examination of the images.Fortunately the ms has images along with the text. The interpretation of any image will help to break the code as it gives aditional info of the potential content of the text.
It is a mistake to try to interpret any page or any section. The book is a whole and you have to see its internal correspondences. The authors have not wanted to draw real herbs, but to show how the virtue of plants is generated by celestial influences. We see stars everywhere, even in the section wrongly called Recipes.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Ruby Novacna - 24-04-2022
(24-04-2022, 11:15 AM)Juan_Sali Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. The interpretation of any image will help to break the codeThis hope guided researchers for a century to the conclusion that "grapes were sour".
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 25-04-2022
It is truly frustrating how in an overwhelming proportion in this forum the VM seems to be a thing for linguists, cryptologists and computational analysts. I have come to think that in reality there is no will to solve the mystery of a book that, despite its originality, fits perfectly in its time.
I say again that this book will cease to be an enigma when it is taken seriously by art historians and iconography experts.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Ruby Novacna - 25-04-2022
(25-04-2022, 05:21 PM)Antonio García Jiménez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.this book will cease to be an enigma when it is taken seriously by art historians and iconography expertsHave you already identified at least one candidate for this task?
RE: No text, but a visual code - R. Sale - 25-04-2022
Heraldry is historical and iconographic. Take it, seriously.
RE: No text, but a visual code - bi3mw - 25-04-2022
(25-04-2022, 05:21 PM)Antonio García Jiménez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I say again that this book will cease to be an enigma when it is taken seriously by art historians and iconography experts.
Well, when art historians such as Lea Carl-Krüsi and Christoph Eggenberger take on the subject, that is also no guarantee for a useful result.
RE: No text, but a visual code - RobGea - 25-04-2022
Some stuff.
Quotes are from Antonio García Jiménez.
Quote:The [VMS] is a whole and you have to see its internal correspondences...through the examination of the images.--sensible idea, 2 simple observations:
129 pages of 'Herbal' aka 'big plants' out of 225 pages = 57.3% of VMS, is plants (voynich.nu system)
--most of the VMS is about plants.
There are only 2 sections that contain nymphs the 'Astrological' and the 'Balneological'
--this does, as others have said, indicate some kind of link between the 2 sections.
Further observations would be welcome.
Quote:The authors have not wanted to draw real herbs, but to show how the virtue of plants is generated by celestial influences.--how so?
--how are the 129 Herbal, big plants pages, generating celestial influence ?
Quote:We see stars everywhere129 / 225 pages ( 57.3% ) of 'Herbal', 'big plants' -no stars
17 / 225 pages ( 07.5% ) of 'Pharma' section -no stars
64.8% of the vms has no stars.
(TBH i haven't checked, there maybe some star shaped flowers).
Quote:The essence of these celestial influences is locked in those elaborate containers that we see in the so-called Pharmaceutical section. We see similar precious containers on the Rosettes page--yes, the 6 containers in the centre look very similar to some pharma jars.
Quote:The zodiacal section lacks the cold signs, Capricorn and Aquarius.--yes, but, "there is a missing folio (f74) exactly at the point where they should have appeared." voynich.nu
Quote:The astrological and magical character of the VM is evident.--Astrological ,yes 12 pages of it
--Magical ??? Please elaborate further, a reason or perhaps a reference.
Quote:It has a certain relationship with the books of Alfonso X the Wise, something that members of this forum such as David Jackson, MarcoP, ReneZ and others have seen before me.--yes, the Libro de astromagia de Alfonso X el Sabio has some zodiac images surrounded by 30 aspects, similar to the ones in the VMS.
Lastly,
Quote:the medicinal virtues of herbs are provided by the stars.I could believe this, but where is the meat, please show me something, anything.
RE: No text, but a visual code - ReneZ - 26-04-2022
(25-04-2022, 05:21 PM)Antonio García Jiménez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.It is truly frustrating how in an overwhelming proportion in this forum the VM seems to be a thing for linguists, cryptologists and computational analysts. I have come to think that in reality there is no will to solve the mystery of a book that, despite its originality, fits perfectly in its time.
I say again that this book will cease to be an enigma when it is taken seriously by art historians and iconography experts.
This goes back to the very beginnings of the Voynich MS online communities, when the WWW was emerging.
This happened in the early 1990's.
Jim Reeds visited the Beinecke and had a talk with the curator Roger Babcock.
Analysing the text, applying all possible tools of cryptanalysis, language analysis etc is exactly what the online community could contribute to. Medievalists tend to have neither the capabilities nor the interest to do this. On the other hand, they have the tools and capabilities to analyse the material, the artwork, etc. and this is not the case for the online community.
Of course, already in the 90's, the amateur community preferred to ignore this, because image interpretation was so much fun.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 26-04-2022
Hello René:
Somewhere you have written that the Voynich could simply be a catalog of stars. That is what I think. I think anyone who has studied the images in the book for years and knows enough about medieval thought can come to the same conclusion.
But it is only when this conclusion is reached that the mind opens. It is when one, as is my case, begins to think that the script that looks like a language or an encrypted language may just be a system of symbols to locate the stars in the sky.
In this system, logically the entropy is very low because it is about reproducing celestial positions and movements with symbols that are repeated over and over again with few variations.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Ruby Novacna - 26-04-2022
(26-04-2022, 04:47 PM)Antonio García Jiménez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.the script that looks like a language or an encrypted language may just be a system of symbols to locate the stars in the sky.In this case the text can have the names of the stars?
Have you made any suggestions?