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+--- Thread: No text, but a visual code (/thread-2384.html)
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RE: No text, but a visual code - R. Sale - 21-03-2022
I think we all agree, if we know what's what, that the symbology assigned by EVA and other systems, has no known and validated system of correspondence, phonetic, mathematical or whatever, with the symbols used in the VMs written text.
The individual symbols do have certain affinities for various known, medieval letters and signs. Does this produce anything functional? Apparently not??
AGJ: "A message can be conveyed with simple icons." Yes, it can. And perhaps the icons are simple and easy to find. Perhaps they are not so simple. What is needed, what is found, are *known* icons. Simple or otherwise. The investigative task is to recover those icons that were known and used in the VMs.
For instance: Is the VMs 'mermaid' on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. nothing more than a generic and nameless mermaid. Or does the VMs illustration represent something else? A "mermaid" with thighs has led investigations to the mythical Melusine, and Melusine is not a simple icon. There's a lot of historical baggage.
And Melusine is not alone, she's with the Burgundian Golden Fleece. She's with the "Oresme-Shirakatsi" cosmic combination, and other visual icons. This includes some icons that were based on medieval standards of identification such as armorial and ecclesiastical heraldry and dealing with significant, historical tradition.
So far, all the iconic messages of the VMs are visual - based on the VMs illustrations and not on the text. What does the text have to tell us? Yes, it's been analyzed. But it still can't be read as there is no validated methodology for the interpretation of individual VMs symbols that connect to a known language or any other method of communication.
The message of the illustrations leads to specific segments of text, in spirals, in circles, in specially marked segments. The path is marked by pairing.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 23-03-2022
Whenever I talk about icons, I always refer to the glyphs of the script, not to the illustrations of the Voynich. For me, the glyphs are symbols with their own meaning, exactly like the zodiacal symbols.
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Interestingly, the zodiacal symbols began to be used in the second half of the fifteenth century. We don't see them before and that's why we don't see them in the VM.
It is true that the transliteration of the glyphs into letters of the alphabet is a convention used to create an electronic version of the script. But it is no less true that doing so distances us from the material reality of what we see.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 26-03-2022
In the thread Analysis of circular text? I have seen this observation made by RobGea
'oteos', 'oteey' and 'o' all rise from the depths to put in an appearance in the Circular Top10.
And an idea has come to mind that I have ruminated many times. It is an idea suggested by the series of o's that we see in the last circle of the f70r1.
What if all the circles in the VM are filled with o's and the only thing the scribe does is replace them with other glyphs following certain rules?
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 16-04-2022
I have come to think that to understand the Voynich the best thing is to forget that there is something written, to ignore the script.
I believe that if there is ever any kind of solution, it will come from the side of the illustrations. But not of a certain image on one page or another, but of a complete iconographic reading, seeing the book as a whole.
In my opinion it is not so difficult to see something clearly if we apply a good dose of common sense.
What do we see?: plants, many rare plants and astrological or astronomical pages, also rare. Let's mix that from the cultural point of view of the time, in which the macrocosm and the microcosm corresponded and maybe we will see some light
RE: No text, but a visual code - Ruby Novacna - 16-04-2022
(16-04-2022, 03:43 PM)Antonio García Jiménez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.to understand the Voynich the best thing is to forget that there is something writtenIt’s not very difficult to forget what you never knew. Since to date very few proposals for understanding the text have been made, of course I'm not counting the numerous statistical analyses.
Everyone is eagerly waiting for the solution coming from the pictures explanation.
I believe that you have successfully explained the star pages ?
Did you manage to apply your ideas to the bath/anatomy section?
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 17-04-2022
Did you manage to apply your ideas to the bath/anatomy section?
The problem is precisely that. Until it is understood that there is no biological or balneological section, there will be no progress.
And I repeat that it is useless to try to translate the Voynich script into any living or dead language. It was useless in the 17th and 20th centuries and will continue to be so in the 21st.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Ruby Novacna - 17-04-2022
(17-04-2022, 09:20 AM)Antonio García Jiménez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Until it is understood that there is no biological or balneological section,So what would you call this section?
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 18-04-2022
I would call Quire 13 the section of the stars coming down to Earth.
I believe that we must apply common sense. In the Voynich there is a zodiacal section. The zodiac is a group of constellations of stars. And that is what we see, allegorical female figures each holding a star.
In Quire 13 we see those same female figures, so common sense tells us that they must be the same ones holding a star. Now those figures seem to go down pipes and bathe in pools. It is a new allegory of how they come down to give their virtues to the plants and to bring them water so that they are born and grow.
This iconographic reading is not only common sense, consistent with what we see, but also consistent with the mentality and culture of the time.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Ruby Novacna - 18-04-2022
(18-04-2022, 12:38 PM)Antonio García Jiménez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I would call Quire 13 the section of the stars coming down to EarthVery poetic, it sounds better than anatomy.
However, I would like to make a small correction: if the plants in the botanical section look like plants, the anatomical pictures look like anatomical pictures, so there is no reason to call them "plants".
RE: No text, but a visual code - bi3mw - 18-04-2022
I would say that specifically in Quire 13 a process (to be described) is presented. However one interprets this process, one cannot get around the fact that it is represented. Everything else would be too short-sighted.